ok thank you very much arthur!
The Super-Mystère flew in 1956. The MD-550 was based on the Mystere IV (the first drawing was a Mystère IV… with a delta wing).
The Etendard IV (which led to the Super Etendard) was also based on the Mystere IV (with lateral air intake, and swept wings).
In fact, the three big families of Dassault fighters – Mystere, Etendard, Mirage – are linked by the Mystere IV!!
In 1956, were the first flights of the Mirage III-01, the Super Mystere B-2 and Etendard IV : all were Mystere IV derivatives!!
Talking about “le fana de l’aviation” :
in september 1997, in 336 there’s was an article about french He-162 Salamander.
3 flew in france from 1945 to july 1948. They were used to train pilots to jets aircrafts. Le Fana interviewed one of these pilots, who knew Marcel Dassault very well. Apparently this pilot meet Dassault in autumn 1948, some month before the first flight of the MD-450 Ouragan.
Dassault tell him that the Ouragan used some stuff of the old, piston-engined fighter Bloch-152 of 1940. (Bloch was Dassault former name, and the 152 was one of the best french fighters fighting against german invasion in May 1940)
So apparently there is a -weak- link between the piston-engined Bloch-152, the Ouragan, the Mystère IV and the Mirage III !!!
Sorry Deino. The ACF was unafordable for France in 1975… It was too expensive for the armée de l’air.
I regret that the ACF couldn’t go the a museum, for example in Le Bourget
or better :
imagine if the ACF was achieve…
It flew in july 1976, was used as a test bed for new Mirages 2000 and 4000 (or even for the Rafale!!) Le Bourget airshow, june 1981 : ACF and 4000 side-by-side on the runway…
Hello Deino! I just found this thread (I was searching photos of the 4000).
You say “… and how does France reached this achievement – to develop two fighters in this class in a three years time frame ???”
More : They were three!
there was a third twin-engined Mirage before the ACF : the Mirage G8 had swing-wings!
What is impressive with Dassault is that in the 70’s , he manage to make three powerful, twin-engined prototypes, with three different kind of wings !!
(Swing-wings , swept-wings, delta-wings)
Between 1970 and 1978 Dassault made four twin-engined mirage prototypes.
First were the G8. They were “swing-wing” aircrafts.
The first was two-seater and flew on 8 may 1971. It was the Mirage G8-01, on display at Le Bourget museum.
The second aircraft was the G8-02 a single seater. It flew on 13th July 1972 One year later, it reach Mach 2.34, and this is still the European speed record for an aircraft!
It was partially scrapped; only the cockpit, undercarriage and wing subsists.
The ACF was a G8-02 derivative. Two big differencies : M53 engines (instead of
Atar-9K50 for the G8) and a swept-wing instead of variable geometry.
In december 1975 it was almost finished (80%) but the program was scrapped and the prototype, too 🙁
Mirage 2000 was choosen by the french president Giscard D’estaing on december 18th 1975. The 4000 was proposed by Dassault the same day, but rejected because it was too expensive… Nevertheless it flew as a private venture between 1979 and 1988 as you red in “le Fana”
The 4000 prototype is at “le bourget” museum since 1992 (but not visible)
The armée de l’air still wanted is twin-jet fighter, and that’s why the Rafale was launched in 1988…
Mirage I, Mirage II, Mirage III, Mirage IV, Mirage V/50, Mirage 2000, Mirage 4000, Mirage F1 and the Mirage G8 all are a lineage named MIRAGE.
Sorry flogger you forget a lot of Mirage in your lineage (Mirage F2, F3 ,ACF and the VTOL Balzac V and III-V).
Wow. A dedicated low-level version of Mirage 2000 for Irak, with MICA for self defense… very impressive indeed!! any drawing or pictures of this beast? Some french technicians were killed by an attack on an iraqi air base (Al Gayar or something like that?) by Iranians phantoms. Iraqi Mirage F1 were much better than their french counterparts…
Chirac was a very good friend of Saddam
Ouf merci Mirage III!!! Je crois qu’il essaye de dire (je vais essaye de traduire ca a l’air repetitif…)
“qui a construit les SAM et les avions qu’utilisait le Vietnam du nord ?”
Combien d’avions et de SAM avait le vietnam dans les années 60 ? et l’URSS ? et le pacte de Varsovie ? (je résume c’est toujours la meme phrase avec des trucs rajoutés a chaque fois…)
The Mirage III was obsolete at the end of the 70’s. Upgrades are useful , but at a moment, you need a new aircraft (otherwise, you loose you share of the market…). The new aircraft was the Mirage 2000.
In the article I mentionned at the beginning the author talk about the Iraqi mirage 2000 as “a low level bomber”. The trouble is , there’s two version of Mirage 2000 dedicated to “low-level-bombing” Mirage 2000 D and Mirage 2000 N.
The 2000N flew in 1983, and the 2000D in april 1993.
So Iraq couldn’t bought Mirage 2000D in the 80’s.
They were interested in the 2000N. But this is a nuclear bomber, with ASMP cruise missile (and a nuclear warhead… 😮 ) Apparently Iraq wanted 2000N and the ASMP (in a non-nuclear version of course! 😮 😮 ) in order to attack Iran or even Israel!!
sorry sens, the F-15 has no fly-by-wire. I have doubts so I put a thread here (on key publishing) and apparently the Eagle has no fly-by-wire.
It has an “stability augmentation system” but the computer system acts via hydraulics lines (from the very first prototype in 1972 to the last F15SG..).
I don’t understand why there’s so much advert about supercruise (for the Raptor, Typhoon , Rafale) if some planes can supercuise in 1960… (Can a Mirage III supercruise ? wow! :p )
The Mirage 2000D was never sold to foreign countries. It’s a very specialised version of Mirage 2000 with an air to ground radar, the Antilope V.
In french air force service there’s differents versions of Mirage 2000, some of them used for air to ground mission only (2000D and 2000N) other for air defence only (2000-5 C and B).
2000 for foreign countries (2000-5mk2 and 2000-9) have multimode radars.
It was exactly the same thing with the F1 (or even for the Mirage III) : some versions were dedicated to the french air force and never sold to foreign countries (F1CR).
Export versions were multirole (antiship, air to ground, recon) the best example was the F1EQ (it was equivalent to the F1CR, the Super Etendard, the Jaguar and the 2000C!!)
There’s only two differents families of Mirage III derivatives.
First, the upgraded Mirage III
Mirage V (1967)
Mirage 50 (1979)
From 1979, the last Mirage 50 were upgraded by south africa and Chili. (panthera, cheetah…). The Mirage IIING who flew in december 1982 was a testbed for the upgrades.
second, Kfir family.
The nesher was the Israeli Mirage V (there’s was no difference with a normal Mirage V)
Kfir C1 C2 C7 C10 are Mirage V with J79 engine and israeli electronics.
And that’s all! The Mirage 2000 is NOT a mirage III derivative, it’s a new airplane (much better)
Kfir and Cheetah are UPGRADED Mirage III.
Mirage 2000 is a TOTALLY NEW AIRCRAFT.
An upgraded aircraft is not the same thing as an aircraft derivative…
It’s difficult to say that all Mirage were based on the III. Some had very different engines (M53, TF30…) other differents wings (swept, swing-wing…).
The idea that “all mirage are derived from the III” is a myth; only the air intakes are similar!!
alas no Mogwai I like canada but they stay with their Hornets ad then , to the JSF… It would be nice to see Rafale in IAF markings… what about Rafale Vs JSF ? :p
Were the F1EQ-6 and EQ-7 exocet capable ?
the very first F1EQ were pure interceptors. The EQ-2 had an air to ground radar. Never heard of the EQ-3… the EQ-4 had more advanced radar and air to ground weapons, the EQ-5 and EQ-6 could fire Exocet and AS-30L missiles… The EQ-4 standard later become the F1CT of the french air force, who flew on 6 november 1992…