****. org means **** (don’t know why it put stars instead of letters…)
well when I said “the 60’s” that was not the most important thing. All I wanted was to launch a hot topic (I had red in some thread that someone wanted a topic over those four superbs fighters…)
For the Mirage F-1 it had some 45 kills with the IrAF (most of them Phantoms and Tiger II, he was no match for the Tomcats, and 45 were lost) 3 with Ecuador (2* Su-22 and an A-37) 4 with south africa (Mig 21 and Mig 23…). Kuwaiti F1s also killed a dozen of Iraqis helicopters in August 1990 (does kill helicopters it count ? :p )
Source ****.org, Mirages F-1 in combats.
Any thrust data about super-atar ? (I found 9000 to 12000 kg of thrust but I’m not sure…)
Tinwing I’m very interested about super Atar. I heard about it but I have very few datas… apparently it started in 1957 : I found it on
– very first drawings of Concorde (super Caravelle) Sud aviation 1958
– Griffon III (mach 3 delta wing turboramjet Nord Aviation 1958)
– Mirage IVC (at the beginning, the Mirage IV was a single-engine fighter with a super Atar 1957)
Okay so the Control Augmentation System acts (as the pilot) on the controls by hydraulics systems ?
What about the awesome KS-172 anti-AWACS missile (400 km range!!) ? was it put in service one day ? or just tested ? It was so heavy that the powerful Su-27 itself only carried 3 (two underwings, one under belly )
My worst nightmare : understand the names given to the Su-27 family by the russians.
There’s absolutely no logic there! A huge amount of sub – versions all with different names! Su-27 , Su-30 Su-34 Su-35 Su-37, ok I understand. But the letters…
Su-27 KUBTZRTFGD… my poor brain!!!
Ok thank you for the information about “air enthusiast”.
In which country is it ? Where Can I buy former publications ? I red they also made articles about the Mirage G and F2… I LOVE air enthusiast :p !!! I NEED Air enthusiast!! :p
This project was a kind of Swedish Mirage IV… :p
Do you think that the Mig was more manoeverable that the Mirage III because of his delta wing + TAIL (the Mirage III was a pure delta) ?
There was a long , long series of article in “le fana de l’aviation” between september 1998 and 1999 about the Mirage III in Israeli service…
I remember reading Giora Epstein, ace of the aces who said that during the kippur War he flew a twin seater Mirage IIICJ ( n°86) , he did not jettison his fuel tanks… and despite that he had two victories in the same mission!!
TF-30 and France
The trouble with french aircraft industry I agree were the motors. As I said there was only one manufacturer, SNECMA, and one engine, the Atar. So, in 1959, SNECMA gave 10.9% of it’s shares to Pratt&Whitney. In exchange: all the turbojets under license, from the J-58 to the J-85. In 1963, USA and France needed a military ,
10 000 kg thrust turbofan with reheat. (USA for the F-111, France for the VTOL Mirage III-V )
So SNECMA and Pratt&Whitney started with the TF-104 (5800 kg of thrust). Then, the TF-106 (6800 kg) TF-306 (9300 kg)
First, a Mirage III (III T, T for turbofan) was used as a testbed.
Then, two Mirage III-V (VTOL)
And two airplanes nearly identical, the G and F2. The first with swept wing (55°) and the second with “swing wings”.
In 1968 the program was abandoned. The M-53 beneficied much of the experience with the TF-30 program, but also the Olympus of concorde…. The M53 was first teted in february 1970, then on an Caravelle airliner in july 1972 and finally on the F1E on december 1973.
What is the civilian version of TF-30 ? cannot remember…
Mirage III
According to the Israeli the problem with Mirage III was it’s engine.Lack of power… In fact the main problem of the Mirages until the 2000 was : the engine. In fact, from the Mystere II of 1951 (some kind of french F-86…) to the Mirage F1 still in service today, the engine is the same! It’s the SNECMA atar…
it’s max power was 7200 kg of thrust which is not very much… From 1948 to 1973 Dassault had to use this engine!! 😡
The Mig was much more agil (the delta wing without canards or CDVE of the III was draggy at low speed)
But thanks to Mounir Radfa (who gave a Mig-21 to the Israeli in august 1966) Israeli pilots knew these weaknesses…