Thanks to Topgunchen for the FC-1 and J-10 pics 😛

Why leave the Gripen out of the fun? 😀

The Mirage 2000-5 and Mig-29SMT are not likely Superior to the J-10 or at very least not marketly…………….Which, is why the IAF needs the MMRCA! As the LCA is only fodder

What leads you to believe that the M2k-5 isn’t superior to J-10? Oh, because of the copious amounts of flight characteristics and data that has come out about the J-10. And after a through comparison of the data, the J-10 can’t be inferior. :rolleyes:

Speaking of facts, LCA’s engine produces 19,000 lb of thrust not 18k. :rolleyes:

Also, J-10 has an upgrade path because the PLAAF is smart. MKI on the other hand, doesn’t have an upgrade path because the IAF is dumb enough to order 230 planes but forgot an upgrade path. Oh, well. Also, I hear that the Russians aren’t interested in upgrading the Flanker. Maybe that’s why the Russians are toting out a new upgraded Flanker variant each year. :rolleyes:

Now I leave you to your regularly scheduled fantasies…

Someone who has flown a F-18 can claim that it’s a good plane. Someone who hasn’t flown anything other than perhaps a kite can make an unequivocal statement that this and that is better? :rolleyes:

Let’s just leave the MRCA topic. We keep on getting back to the same old argument of “my opinion is better than your opinion.” In a few decades we’ll find out what plane will get selected and can have a few rounds of soco shots in celebration. Let’s get back to the naval talk.

ASRAAM is made by the same blokes who make MICA, so it can’t be ruled out of the package. For ~$40 million per plane (assuming no new frames), this should be a pretty comprehensive upgrade.

Note: Boeing would also love to get into India’s Commercial Airline Market! Seems like both the 737 and 787 would be perfect for a growing India.:D

Boeing is already in India’s market, carrying out a 68 plane order that includes the 737, 777, and 787.
The T-45 could find a home with the IN. It is looking for a carrier capable AJT and the T-45 would fit in with the IAF’s Hawk logistics as well.

Where is this Mistral for the IN coming from? It seems to be an internet rumor that people have attached themselves onto.

I guess you’re not seeing the point. Turbinia isn’t “on a high horse”. He brought up points which were correct. If they are afterwards countered by very obscure and not even true ways, then I think Turbinia is correct. If the other party (this case Harry) doesn’t want to give up and keeps going, then it’s Turbinia’s right to tell him the discussion is over and that’s what Turbinia meant with his last reply.

The Indian Navy classifies its ships at above 70% indigenous. India has never made an attempt to even make an ASM aside from working on Brahmos. For the most part, India never really attempted to make most of the major combat systems in house until very recently. The fruits of these labors will be borne out later. Both Turb and Harry brought out good points. Turb brought out points that were correct when looking at the Indian naval industry very broadly but not in a very in depth manner. While Harry’s point, also correct, was that if you look beneath just the surface of the Indian naval industry, you will see that there have been progress made, not high profile but significant progress, nontheless.

If Turb just wanted to disengage, then he could have simply stated that “I have said all I wanted to say and we will agree to disagree, etc.” Instead of using the language he did. There are ways of having conversation and disengaging in a respectful manner.

Seaking refurb and upg will be handled by AW. The IN also has an RFP out for eight, I think, new gen ASW helos. I presume these will either go on the P17s or P15As.

Yeah whatever, I have no interest in a my-penis-is-bigger-than-yours pissing contest. The unfortunate fact for you is that Indian indigenous programs have cost a lot, delivered little and India still relies on foreign technology.

But you’re the one that kept on and keep on responding to the India-China blah-blah stuff? And YOU don’t have an interest in shlong measuring competition? :rolleyes: If you don’t, then don’t respond or bring it up.

The Chinese have made tremendous progress in their naval shipbuilding efforts, no doubt. The main reason why the Indian’s fell behind in ship building was the time between 1985-95 where no new ships were ordered. That left the Indian shipbuilders twidling their thumbs for a decade while the Chinese shipyards were hitting their stride. That gap in shipbuilding is just rolling down the timeline now and affecting a lot of things for the IN. Eventually, that gap will pass and Indian shipbuilding will get up to speed.

Regarding the Trenton, that is an one off purchase mostly to use as a platform to create various CONOPS, GENOPS, and doctrines of use rather than to actually use as an invasion platform. The most that the Trenton will see is CASEVAC and other humanitarian aid stuff. The IN has never operated a ship like an LPD or one with a well deck, hence it needs a crash course before it dives into the deep end of the pool with a Mistral order.