VictorDidn’t Soviet planes buzz US carrier(s)? Don’t maritime patrol a/c buzz ships/subs from other countries?
Didn’t the Turks and the Greeks often get into it with their fighters over “international airspaces?”
Didn’t a Chinese aircraft ram an American plane in international airspace?
Didn’t a Chinese lazer dazzle an American sat in international space?
What’s so special when the Israelis do it? Oh, yeah, cuz it’s the Israelis. Who by the way, don’t have a right to exist.
Added later: Intel agencies doing morally and legally questionable things? Shocking! I never would have believed it…
VictorThe Indians did take help at least in structural aspects of the ship. It was more of peer review/validation. That is not well known beyond naval circles. The Fincantieri deal is well known, obviously. The reason why Fincantieri was chosen was because the IAC’s propulsion (and possibly the electrical generation system, my assertion) will almost be exactly like that of the Cavour. I believe it was bid out and Fincantieri won. One would assume that winning entailed technical as well as financial aspects. So, the best company did win, as far as the IN is concerned.
When this particular contract was put out, DCN did put in their bid but at that time, DCN didn’t really inspire confidence with the complications the CdG had at that time. But in any case, the IAC will have the propulsion system the IN wants and will be designed and integrated by a company that has a good rep in the business.
Added later: One reason why the DCN bid might have lost is because, I believe, they proposed Alstom or RR GT. The IN clearly favored the LM2500.
VictorIn the same manner that the Chinese will be proficient with aircraft carriers in a few years with only a “minor challenge,” I guess the Indians will also become proficient with SSN operations after a few years they induct theirs. Afterall, the IN can just read about SSN ops and observe other navies.
Also, SLL, you are criticizing the IN for not using Western expertise in carrier design but then you are slamming the IN for using Fincantieri as a design partner for the IAC propulsion system.
BTW, what makes you so sure that the IN didn’t use Western help in design? Other than Fincantieri.
VictorThe ADS (now it’s called the IAC) may have a surprise up its sleeve. Rather a catapult on the angled deck. Why a cat even when both the N-LCA and Mig-29K are not cat capable? E-2.
At least that was the NG plan shown to the IN. That plan entailed some changes to the IAC, especially the length of the angled runway and slight redesign of some of the facilities on the flight deck and island. Oh, btw, NG not only makes the E-2, it also owns a little facility in the boondocks of Virginia called NNS. NNS might be of some help for the IAC.
Of course, the IN might not have accepted the NG plan. Dunno…
VictorThe only reason that was brought up is because of this stupid and patternly false retort that the LCA is somehow more widely covered and known than Chinese aircraft like the FC-1 or the J-7PG. When presented with facts including pictures, we always get the “India free, China unfree” silliness as an argument.
I don’t believe that’s the argument being made at all. The argument being made is that the information known about the LCA is genuine because the information comes from people or sources who have first hand knowledge about the program. Whereas most of the information that we have about the J-10 have been mostly “ferreted” (your own words). This process of ferreting introduces a lot of speculation. And because so much is based on speculation, it becomes a battle of “my speculation is better than your speculation” or my digital photography skills are better than your digital photography skills, and then usually just flat out flames.
Even a small molehill of genuine information, AKA real knowledge, is worth more than a mountain of ferreted speculation. I am sure this forum has terabytes of threads devoted to J-10, I know because I have been here pretty much since the begining of this forum, but the amount of factual knowledge about the plane is miniscule compared to the amount of noise that is generated.
Let’s end the speculation wars and just leave it at that. Like someone said, let the Chinese have their J-10s and the Indians their LCA.
VictorLet me get this straight…
We’re trying to compare a plane that is still trying to work up to its full capabilites, which in itself is a moving target with a plane that we have very little confirmed technical information on. Granted the J-10 does have full backing by its host AF the fact is that we still don’t know a lot of things about the plane.
This discussion is very premature and is leading to the kind of flames that we are seeing. Now we’re talking about the number of visitors to a country and about press freedom rankings. This will get even more out of hand and yet two mods came in, made comments without really mitigating the degrading level of conduct and left. What are these mods for if not for regulating these kinds of threads with even more of a zeal than regular threads.
VictorA2A firing trials probably won’t start till late 2007, optimistically. Realistically, mid 2008. I would also think that the M2K would probably have the honor of doing the first firings. I am not sure if any other fighter aircraft can accomodate the data bus of the Astra. I am not counting the MKIs as they will be busy with their own integration tasks to get them to Mk3 stds.
VictorInteresting, I wonder when they plan flight trials.
Probably soon after fair skies return to Chandipore.
Victorhttp://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/09/12/208941/India+to+sign+MiG-29+engine+deals.html
India to sign MiG-29 engine deals
By Siva Govindasamy
India was expected to seal deals worth $275 million with Russia last week to acquire and licence produce Klimov RD-33 turbofan engines as part of a refurbishment programme for its air force fleet of MiG-29 fighters.
Under the agreements, which were expected to be finalised during negotiations with Russia’s Rosoboronexport sales organisation last week, the Chernyshev Machine-building plant – part of Russia’s RSK MiG – will supply 20 RD-33 engines to India from early 2007 under a $25 million deal.
Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) will licence build a further 120 engines at its Koraput site in Orissa state under a follow-on deal worth some $250 million, according to industry sources. The Indian delegation discussing the deal was led by HAL chairman Ashok Baweja.
The RD-33 deals will support part of an upgrade plan for India’s MiG-29 fleet, in service since 1986. It is experiencing problems acquiring spare parts for the aircraft from Russian suppliers, impacting the type’s operational effectiveness.
Traditionally strong defence ties between India and Russia led to New Delhi ordering 16 MiG-29K naval fighters as part of a 2003 deal to acquire a surplus aircraft carrier from Moscow. HAL could also acquire the technology to manufacture RD-33MK Sea Wasp engines for the MiG-29K as part of the new licence production deal, the sources say.
RSK MiG’s latest MiG-29OVT development – now being promoted to export customers as the MiG-35 – is among several designs likely to contest an Indian air force requirement for 126 new fighters. Other candidates are expected to include the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Gripen International Gripen and Lockheed Martin F-16.
■ The Indian air force has reported a dramatic 91% reduction in the number of accidents involving its fighter aircraft types in the five-month period from 1 April 2006. Attributing the improvement to the adoption of new safety standards, the service says it only suffered one major accident – to a MiG-29 – during this period.
VictorI think the fact that BR put Sea Dragon not satisfying IN for tu-142 is plenty of evidence.
The fact that the Russians wanted $900 million to upgrade the eight Bears was more of a deal breaker than anything else.
VictorOut gunned yes, not outclassed!
What in the PN inventory would be in the same class as the 3 P-15s or the 3 Talwars?
What ships in the PN would be of the same class of the 3 P-15As, 3 P-17s, and 3 Talwar IIs, and 4 P-28s? Most, if not all of the 13 ships will be in the water by 2012.
Even easier, what in the PN is in the same class as the P-25As?
VictorWhere are the Marlins coming from? If you are going to include the Marlins in any conversation, why not include the Scorpenes and Akula(s) and ATVs? Heck, include the 16+8 new gen ASW helos and 8 P-8Is and anything else the IN is “looking” at.
VictorAgosta 90B, P-3C, Harpoon II.
These out perform their IN counterparts. Its simple as that, if you refuse to accpet basic facts its impossible to argue with you, we can be here all day.
Agosta 90B is better than Kilo vanilla. Against the Kilo upgraded, the superiority of the Agosta 90B is at least debatable and not an outright given. The only place where the A-90B is clearly ahead is in AIP and only one boat has that and it has just launched. With a fleet wide perspective, the number of upgraded Kilos and U-209s are clearly better than the grand total of three A-90Bs and a handful of obsolescent earlier subs.
P-3C, in terms of electronics is overall better than the Tu-144s but against the Il-38SDs, the differences are at least debatable and superiority of the P-3C is not a given. In terms of size and serviceability of the fleet, the P-3Cs are in a better position.
Harpoon II is better than the Sea Eagle. But what about the Kh-35? Klub-N? Klub-S? Brahmos?
Any supposed superiority that the PN might have over the IN in localized aspects are transient and debatable at best. Taking a fleet wide perspective (after all it will be fleets that will be fighting, a Harpoon is not going to be dogfighting a Sea Eagle) will reveal that the IN has the ability to take the initiative while the PN will be a reactionary force.
BTW, did you figure out if the Hanit has the Phalanx or not?
VictorJust go to the appropriate thread(s) on this forum. There are countless sources given. I’m not going to spoon feed you.
Victorsource? Or BR BS?
😀
Are you really that out of touch with reality?
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