surely he is not that naive to confuse IJT and AJT 😉
Surely, but why compare a plane that is about to hit serial production with one that is barely on paper? There will be a time lag of about 5-10 yrs b/w Yak-130 serial prod and that of HJT-39. The time factor alone make the two aircrafts non-rivals, in terms of marketing.
Of course the HJT-36 is not a rival to the Yak-130 :rolleyes:
If the IAF wants a strike aircraft, why not just go for broke and ask for the JSF-A? 🙂
I agree with everything that ink typed except the part in the parentheses. Those through tubes remain quite uninteresting…
Does any air force buy a fighter that hasn’t even achieved the production standard prototype stage, let alone weaps and sensor integration?
If not, why would the IAF and the Tejas be any different?
Goblin
South African Cheetah
X-32
2 seater Foxbat
Yak-15
Freehand
Vampire
Super Entendard
YF-17
U-2
From its June 2nd flight…
From Jane’s
Indian Su-30K fighters display new capabilities
GEORG MADER JDW Correspondent
Vienna·India’s deployment of Su-30K fighters for a French exercise was the first outside India
·The Indian Su-30Ks took on French Mirage 2000C and 2000-5 fighters
·French pilots were impressed by the Su-30Ks’ capabilities
India’s pilots have demonstrated the power of their Sukhoi Su-30K aircraft in an exercise that saw ‘Flankers’ flying operationally on European soil, outside Russia, for the first time since the early 1990s.
The exercise provided fresh insight into the capability of the aircraft, its weapon load and the advanced abilities of Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots.
The positive experience follows on from the 2004 ‘Cope India’ exercise with the US when the Su-30s competed successfully against F-15C aircraft.
Six Su-30K aircraft took part in ‘Garuda II’ from 15 June to 1 July alongside French Air Force Mirage 2000s, operating from the 125th Air Force Base at Istres and in skies spanning Marseilles to Corsica.
French pilots involved in ‘Garuda II’ said the exercise demonstrates that India is one of the world’s leading air forces and that their pilots are “outstanding professionals with an amazing ability to adapt and [have] good knowledge of NATO procedures”.
It is the first time that the IAF has taken part in an exercise in Europe and, in exchange for a French deployment to India in 2003 for ‘Garuda I’, the first time it has taken six Sukhoi Su-30K fighters out of India.
The Indian aircraft deployed to Istres from their home base near Delhi via Jamnagar in India’s west.
Refuelling from two Ilyushin Il-78 tanker aircraft, the aircraft flew to Egypt’s Jiyanklis air base near Alexandria and then on to Istres.
An IAF spokesperson said: “We could have gone straight with several refuellings, but we did not want to tax the pilots too hard.”
A French officer added: “The Indians have put themselves visibly into the ‘club’ of the world-leading air arms with that remarkable deployment; the Chinese for example, still cannot do that.”
The Su-30Ks and various French Mirage-2000 aircraft performed mutual air defence missions from 17-28 June, that developed in complexity as the exercise progressed.
The fighters also refuelled from the opposite nation’s tankers. This demanded complex preparations because, despite both sides using the hose-and-drogue system, [u]French and Russian jet engines do not use the same JP-fuel.[/u]
Initially the aircraft acted as ‘blue pairs’, doing cross- refuellings and mixed patrols with Mirage 2000Cs equipped with RDI pulse Doppler radars. This was followed by one against two and two against two engagements within visual range, simulating the use of Magic-2 and R-73 (AA-11 ‘Archer’) air-to-air missiles (AAMs).
After 24 June, the arrival of Mirage 2000-5s allowed simulated beyond-visual-range (BVR) combat with the French using MICA AAMs and the Indians using R-77 (RVV-AE or AA-12) AAMs. It was previously believed that only the Su-30MKI fitted with an N011M (Bars) radar could operate the R-77.
Indian exercise leaders referred to the aircraft as Su-30Ks, not Su-30MKs, but several times used the term ‘A-12’ for what they described as “a fully active BVR weapon”.
Official results from the exercise are not yet available.
French pilots used the exercise to assess the ‘threat-benchmark’ of the Su-30. One Mirage pilot said: “In close combat the Mirage [appears] more ‘nervous’ than the Sukhoi. A decision must be achieved in the first minute or the sheer power and the agility of the Su-30 will overwhelm you.” {Ed. A nice little insight}
The latest French frontline fighter, Rafale, was reportedly sought for ‘Garuda II’ but “it has not yet been operationalised in the French Air Force and was thus not available”, a source said.
‘Garuda II’ gave India another good chance of evaluating the Mirage 2000-5 and RDY radar combination, as the IAF will inherit 12 ex-Qatari Mirage 2000-5s and has an upcoming requirement for 126 fighters, which will include that type.
Demanding conditions during the exercise were reported by the Indian side because of “unfamiliar dense airspace with constant fresh restrictions – and the French language-melody on the radio”.
Raptor
Rafale
Gripen
Black Widow
JSF
Su-30 MKI
Tomcat
Harrier
Mirage 2000
Draken
Thought experiment:
Basic notion: Aircraft A is marginally superior to aircraft B in certain situations.
If both aircraft A and B get the same exact upgrade (i.e. HMS), will the basic notion still hold true? If not why not?
Cobra is an excellent maneuver for drastical reducing speed, as well as rapid AoA change. Since it can be performed even with full A-A load, I see certain possibilities to get use of this advantage in real combat.
The F-18 you are referring to was HARV, a specially modified Hornet for high AoA maneuvring, not a series variant. Another machine to perform Cobra has been JAS39 Gripen, unfortunately in the very middle of the maneuver the engine sucked reverse airflow and stalled, resulting in immediate crash. I got this all on video, really rocks!
In that vid, the pilot immediately knew the game was up, fortunately too, he punched out not a moment too soon. Also, why was he trying the manuever so low?
One of the founders of the Cargolifter company was a prof of mine. Interesting stories…
Thats right, non-US participation in the JSF program is all about doing what they tell you, when they tell you, for the price they tell you.
And if you don’t like it they will find someone else to do it.
You’re exactly right, that is EXACTLY how contractors deal with subcontractors. Why would the relationship b/w LM and its European subcontractors be any different? Oh wait, cuz they’re European and that means they’re special! :rolleyes:
People have a pipe dream that the EU is a monolithic block. It’s not. It is still made up of sovereign nations whose national interests may not align with the overall EU agenda. A lot of countries in the EU don’t give a rattus assus about where their aerospace companie’s next order comes from, be it EADS (and its subs), LM, Boeing, etc. They just want their nation’s aero ind to survive and thrive. They have no loyalties to EADS, why should they? Oh wait, just because they share the same continent automatically makes them loyal to others.
A lot of people like to see the EU as the answer to the US but the EU is a fractured economic union whose individual entities’ political and military interests differ from that of the EU’s. Live with it! And the US will obviously use its clout to maintain several wedges that keeps the EU fractured on various issues. Would anyone expect it do other wise?
havent heard that one!
This link seems to be the only industry oriented source that cite India as a possible party…
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/05/p8a-mma-could-become-a-multinational-program/index.php