I think some may have been confused by my bad wording.

Indeed, I said :
“The planes have flown only 30% of their flying hours potential. After upgrade they’ll have exactly the same abilities as any others F3.”

A better translation could have been, in hindsight, that they have already consumed 30% of their life expectancy. For record’s sake, the french version is something like “les cellules des avions ont utilisés 30% de leur potentiel”. This isn’t easy to translate sorry

I don’t think any personal feelings are right in this case. There is nothing wring in admitting that Gripen can offer a good bang for less than what Rafale costs. Gripen is like Mercedes C-class competing against BMW 5-er series, of course it is cheaper and still offers most of the features of its rival, nothing wrong with that, as well. And if FAB and EMBRAER would choose Gripen due to cost/integration, then it provides no base for thinking that now Gripen must be *better* (whatever this stupid word means) than the French bird.

Well, my bad feeling here is that basically nothing official was published. So we have rumors, in the context of a bitterly fought competition where, for sure, disinformation is among the weapons of choices, since it’s all about convincing Brazil.

So we have plenty of rumors, some for SH, some for the Gripen (and apparently even some for the Rafale).

The worst is that AFAIK, the real results won’t be published, for a very good potential reasons : neither the FAB nor Lula’s government want to be sued/annoyed by some disappointed bidders. Don’t forget the bidders are rich enough to wage a full blown media war.

Yet some pick up some rumors and proclaim these rumors are the ones to believe or build hypothesis upon. And they keep telling these rumors. Why not wait for the outcome? Why such an hurry for something which will come anyway and for which “reality” will never be really known ? I mean, even if the FAB publishes its report, they could easily have tempered with it in between for “face saving”.

In the end, continuing to speak and to give so much importance about rumors look really pointless. Maybe trying to collect them all would be nice to have a better picture of all aspects of this competition.

But way worse is to pick some of these rumors and continuing telling them. It would be at the level of a deluded fanboy or some spinners like… Goebbels. Let’s conclude again with this quote :
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”

What new engines? Blisk-ed M88-eco, M88-3, or just new M88-2?

hum, that’s a bit more than I know sorry…

AFAIK they’ll have the same as the current F3, but which version is beyond my knowledge. But I’m pretty sure some others know, let’s see 🙂

You mean, F1 had 70% potential of current F3?

The planes have flown only 30% of their flying hours potential. After upgrade they’ll have exactly the same abilities as any others F3.

What ?!? You didn’t know the changes are that huge ? 😀

To provide a bit more elements for those not having them, changes include :
– new engines (previous were removed when storing the planes and are anyway of an older generation + they were most likely used for spares)
– planes have to be wired all over again
– electronic elements have to be replaced by the current generation (AFAIK it means almost all of them, from Spectra to the radar).

in the end, apart from the plane outer shell, almost most of it change.

it requires for the planes to go again on the fabrication line.

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I am confident that this will appear somehow in the press if really happened.

as long as there’s nothing official from the UAE, which is almost certain, how can you expect something in the press ? At best some “you name it” air force official saying “we kicked butts like hell there” which in fact says nothing. But some officials saying “we’ve beaten this plane X times” looks quite unlikely. At best it would be mild no ?

anyway, let’s wait and see 🙂 Hopefully Christmas will bring some presents 😉

I dont know how many times this has to be clarified. FYI, the Indian side did not leak anything.

I didn’t want to upset you. I really remember having read that the Indians pilots were pretty much satisfied of their performance, which looked like “we beat some of them”. Maybe I got it wrong and they were “only” very pleased with the learning experience…

Sounds like that’s a direct quote from your source. Any chance you can disclose if this person was a first hand observer or reporting from secondary sources? Also, is this is a pilot, gov. official or corporate guy? US, Middle East, UK, French? 😉

Finally, any indication whether this included BVR, or WVR only?

well, I really tend to think that this kind of “anonymous” leaks are always a good way to put the things in the best light for the one you favour.

I’ve seldom heard any leak being bad how his own side. Remember the Indian pilots after they flew to the States ? Well, leaks from their side said they were the best around. Leaks from the other side were less glorious…

The worst is that both sides may be true : depending on what you look at, your mileage can vary quite extensively.

Will we get some kind of official report for these fights ? I highly doubt it, since it’s not the case usually. So what’s left ? Lot of room for all wanabee’s “mine is better than your” and nothing serious…

On a more concrete side, I read at some point that the F22 wouldn’t take part in these exercises. How come we hear of them again ? Was it wrong ? Did it change ?

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EDIT : the funniest here is all fanboys can easily pick up/found comment from the side they favour. Like some french dudes having some rumours of french air force, and some other guy rumours from his own side. And they keep bringing their own one sided rumours as war trophy. LOL