ZedroSIt did win orders for Saudi, not sure they had a competition for that. The Rafael is likely to win the UAE deal, then again there won’t be competition there.
no competition for Saudia AFAIK, but now I’ve a doubt Austria… Competition with the M2000 ?
lol
ZedroSWhere did i say that its utter crap. Those are your words. All i have said is it do not do justice to its higher price tag. And that it has lost all competitions it has been in.
Tell me another aircraft like that. 🙂
sorry for the crap part, it was in a general way, I should avoid generalization after quoting someone.
For the other plane, the EF as well has lost every competition he was in.
ZedroSAll on paper Nicolas all on paper. It has failed to impress in all competitons it has been in and lost every one of em.
I know others planes (including some 4th++ gen) which have lost every competition they were in, without every one concluding these planes were utter crap. So this “no competition win” argument cannot sustain itself IMHO.
For the impress part, it’s harder to tell and way more linked to your own reading/feeling.
ZedroSActually the stories are 3.
In the third encounter the French came to Larissa with the F2, whistle the first 2 were RafaleM’s F1 from the CDG.
In all three cases the French fighters failed to pose a clear advantage over 1 generation older F-16s. In fact the HAFs F-16 could relatively easy counter or at least be equal to the AdlAs Rafale.
BTW, could you tell your source(s?) ? Just for the records 😉
Some side questions as well :
– do you have some same feedbacks for some other “4th++” gen planes ?
– was it in dogfights or .. ?
– the Greeks pilots were of which level ? I mean that it’s quite often said that the level of the various pilots at play are really important, so I wonder if it could be a part of the explanation of the current feedback.
Thanks again !
cheers
zedros
EDIT : BTW, Rafale (or not) in Greece is quite hot topic recently lol :
– defencenet.gr : Rafale Not In Greece : http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1353504&postcount=157
– defensenews.com : “Greece Undecided on France Fighter Purchase” http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3915577&c=EUR&s=TOP
so… we shall see. At least, with reports like this one from greg, if the Rafale is bought, EF fans would be able/allowed to tell that it’s a political choice 😉 lol
++
ZedroSAnd you will be right :rolleyes:
hum, are you sure that later versions would have a better impact ?
ZedroSThe French are in such a state of denial about the utter and complete failure that Rafale constitutes that they are becoming more and more xenophobic towards anyone criticizing Rafale.
So nice from you. Very good post, you’re definitely yourself above all critics and an example of Gentleman we might all want to follow. Furthermore, your posts in this thread are of the uttermost interest and wisdom, I’m deeply impress by your remarks of the Rafale technical aspects as well as of the French people. You should call Obama to join his team of the best of the best. It would make us some vacancy. Thanks.
NB : please take Jacko with you, since he has ruined this topic with your help. Many thanks, gentlemen ! I hope you’ll be busy for the next one hundred years. Cheers !
Now, if you don’t mind, back the topic. I’m still amazed at the few echos from these 9 extra missions.
Honestly, for the Swiss who seem to be doing their best to do a fair comparison, this seems odd and… unfair. I hope they’ll provide some insight in the end, whatever the outcome.
ZedroSI believe that the nine extra Rafale missions covered nothing that wasn’t covered within the sortie allocation for Gripen and Typhoon, but I don’t think that the fact that extra sorties were needed is terribly important.
Funny : you’re the one quoting these extra sorties as a down point for the Rafale, then you dismiss them as “not terribly important”. However, in a competition based largely on these very flying missions, it looks like they are no ?
Does someone know what for they were done ? Only A to G or A to A as well ? Was it planned before the planes arrivals or when on spot ? Isn’t it unfair for the other planes ? How did Saab and EADS react ? At their place I wouldn’t love it…
BTW, in terms of things to demonstrate, what about the Gripen ? This plane is said to have a wide array of weapons and equipment available, so they could have some extra missions as well no ?
ZedroSIt actually delayed one flight from the end of one day (it was getting dark) to the beginning of the next…..
Do you have some links with more details ? What went wrong precisely ?
By contrast….
Which aircraft needed nine extra sorties to complete its evaluation?
lol
That wasn’t the question, thanks for continuing the pissing contest ! Such a terrible habit of yours…
But now that we’re there, is there any known explanation ? Nine in flight issues resulting in nine extra flights or… ?
ZedroSSome kind of computer hiccup. Delayed the testflight in light configuration a whole day.
Outch. Didn’t know. Any link for that ?
ZedroSTyphoon was the only competitor with major technical problems.
What exactly ?
ZedroSDoes PC?? = Plenum Chamber Burning??? = Reheat = Afterburning.
My bad, I used a french word
Its not moving because its bolted to the ground, the arrestor hook is attached by cables into the runway.
Its a ground engine check possibly after an engine change.
I didn’t see the cables into the runway, I’ll check again. thanks !
ZedroShi
I found this video on the net regarding the trial undergoing in Switzerland :
http://www.kriensnet.ch/videos/EADS_Eurofighter_131108.wmv
Can anyone explain what’s going on ? I would think of a maintenance checkup, but as I’ve never seen yet such a video I don’t know in the end. Impressive as well the fact that the plane doesn’t move at PC, unless there’s a reason (like a possibility to have PC started not at full power?) ??
Thanks in advance 🙂
ZedroSHum, at the end of the day, the point is no Rafale was exported, and the reasons aren’t that easy to find out/pick up with certainty : each one will for sure make his own mind. And I don’t think trying to convince people who have already make up their mind will do any good. It sounds more like another rehearsal of each side opinions.
Just a few questions : I’ve read that Spectra was a big part of the Rafale development cost, does anyone have a firm number ?
Furthermore, would it be possible to add a picture to the topic (for the topics list) ? The previous smile was pretty enjoyable and made it way easier to pick the thread.
Thanks !
++
ZedroSto everyone,
I would advise to ignore lordAssap. The fact that someone dare to answer him gives him a “space” to exist…
He is desperate to find someone responding to his posts to start a flame…
I would advise the ones who feed him with troll level questions/answers to stop it. Because when some have open and real questions he’s most diligent in giving an answer.
And for all the bias he could have, at least in this case it’s obvious and not hidden behind a so called “unbiased un provable first hand knowledge” or whatever.
Furthermore, I find he comes up with very detailed and illustrated arguments/points/articles, which is almost unread of in any other topic/forum.
For sure, we aren’t any more complacent with him than with any other poster : it’s as hard to believe him 100% based just on that, as can be seen of the french posters reaction notably.
I would rather suggest to ask him precise questions about what could interest you in the Rafale and, at all cost, avoiding to providing him with any kind of “Rafale vs EF” meat. Which, in this Rafale topic, seems quite natural in the end (and whoever dares to open a Rafale vs EF topic knows it’ll end up in a flame war). And don’t start a messenger killing operation, in which case we are loosers here 😉 lol
++
ZedroSI don’t see for France the NEED to buy Typhoon either, as long as Rafale is in production. Rafale is omnirole, gives income to the local industry, France will support it for its life cycle and this is natural. It’s not that France is going to engage in a war against F22 tomorrow anyway, so why worry?
As you keep trying to compare Rafale and EF for the Greek contest, let me just have a say : why are you so sure the future of the Rafale is worse than of the EF ?
On one side, you have a single country whose whole combat fleet in the future is going to be dependent on one single type of aircraft, namely the Rafale. Since the beginning this very country knew this and that’s why, among others reasons I agree, but still, this country decided to go alone for it. Shall I add that this country has a long history of “self made airplanes” and of “national champions building” (especially true with Sarkozy by the way lol). Futhermore, the F3 Rafale is already planned and you know what’ll be in it.
On the other side, you’ve a consortium of various countries of which none of them will rely only on the plane they make together. These countries haven’t an history of “self made planes”, quite the contrary. For this consortium, the T3 part of their aircraft isn’t sure for now. Furthermore, the requirements and expectations are quite different in each country, having quite an impact on the current plane and its future.
So, at the end of the day, I really don’t get why you think the Rafale future is so uncertain. Maybe it will never sell, why not, but still it’s sure that the French Air Force will only rely on it. No matter how much Dassault sells (or not), the French Navy and Air Force need a working plane !
On the other hand, this consortium sees its members looking for others aircrafts (mainly the F35), which means quite an overlap in their inventory and two sources of spendings. Will they need to have their EF to be always top notch ? I’m not so sure !
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