Oh, another point from the “EF fan club” against the Rafale, is that Greece partecipates in the IRIS-T program and Rafale isn’t certified for it (and if we ask Dassault for certification, the cost will fall on our shoulders).

Arg, don’t start this “points contest”, it may never ends, even after 1 000 years and whatever the actual sales/knowledge :diablo: lol

Once again thanks for your feedback, I now have a much better understanding of the situation. 🙂

I still have questions tough, I hope you don’t mind :
– what was the Greek reaction when France/Dassault presented the 2000-5 instead of the Rafale ? EDIT : it’s always funny, by the way, to see how much an offer can be off the mark. What the hell was the 2000-5 being compared to F15 and EF when the France had the Rafale. I don’t get the commercial strategy being !
– why no process like the one in Singapour for the plane selection ? It looks like the process was quite paper based the first time…

cheers
ZedroS

Thanks a lot Hyperion, it was a very interesting read, you provided a lot of very interesting background 🙂

P.S.: Sorry for not being able to give positive info on what will happen, but fact is, we can only make conjectures.

That’s normal. And whatever : time will time 😉

Hell, if Dassault has the means to prove to our airforce that the Rafale can detect and shoot down the F-35 we may order 80 Rafales and everyone will remain with the mouth open! 😮

Hard to prove ! We don’t even know yet of what the F35 will be able of and, furthermore, which version Turkey’ll get. However, it’s sure all this training time with Greece has a goal and this may be it.

BTW, on a French forum I read recently that the Rafale has used/tried all of Spectra’s capacities (included the 3rd part of it which is never used in exercise in France for fear of spying) in Crete. Have you heard of it as well ?

NB : I don’t plan to debate about the rightness of Greek perceptions about the Rafale (even if I feel some part of it to be quite off), since it’s quite pointless. Do we agree ?

On the other hand, I was wondering where from the Greek Air Force had the impression/assurance/certitude (?) that the EF could defeat the F35. Is it just for all the talks about “the EF interception first role” or did they had something “stronger” ?

As usual for the JSF, the numbers vary quite a lot depending on the source.

For example, the US senator Levin is speaking of about $100 millions each there : http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/release.cfm?id=298687

so…

At the end, I guess who bribes the most has also its importance in this game… :rolleyes:

As far as I remenber, the engines are smaller as well on the production Rafale (by 1 meter), am I right ?

No, I don’t already know the answer.

My mistake, I was thinking that a reporter like you, having been abroard and speaking so dearly about both the Rafale and the EF, would be more up to date. I mean, it’s the journalist who’s supposed to dig out the good information and put it to light, not the forumer.

But whatever, it’s nice to see you’ve gotten your information. I hope you’ll still double check it, we never know to who we’re speaking on such places !

But where do they put 4x2000L ? Two under each wing ? Crazy !

As far as I can determine (and Dassault and the Armée de l’Air are coy about weights), Rafale C weighs in at 10,300-kg empty in operational fit. That DOES NOT INCLUDE CFTs. Dassault now admit only to “about 10 tonnes” (“une masse à vide d’environ 10 tonnes”) – the old 9.1, 9.3-9.4, 9.850 tonne figures were an aspiration, but were seemingly not achieved, and are superceded if not discredited. Wing area is 45.7 m2.

lol ! 9,850 tonnes doesn’t seem for you to be in the “about 10 tonnes” range ? I just love the way you jump on the conclusion the plane didn’t achieve its goal about weight with just this fact…

What about considering the AdlA claims of “about 10 tonnes” to be right and fair considering some of the Rafale are 9 850kg and other lighter ? Could they claim the plane to be of the “9 tonnes class” ? I already see some people attacking them for lying if so…

And what’s your point about CFT ? Rafales in AdlA don’t use it, so… :confused: