Roovialk“China warns foreign planes entering defense zone”
by Christopher Bodeen
January 24, 2014
Source:
http://news.yahoo.com/china-warns-foreign-planes-entering-defense-zone-064540562.html
BEIJING, Jan. 23 (Xinhua) — Chinese air force planes have been regularly patrolling the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) since it was established two months ago, an air force spokesman said here Thursday.
“On a recent patrol, multiple types of Chinese aircraft were sent to “monitor, identify, track and warn” multiple types of foreign military planes that had entered the ADIZ, Shen added.”
Now does this mean that we will soon see photos like this?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]224908[/ATTACH]
RoovialkChinese article that claims J-10B has one of the most advanced radar AESAs in the world, and J-10B is lighter than J-10A due to extensive use of composites retaining similar performance
Any idea how this article arrived at their conclusion?
Roovialki see you’ve conceded on the fact that your previous post was an obvious, cynical and disgusting attempt at warmongering. frankly i would rather spend my time watching Japanese tentacle porns then having this futile conversation with you. however, as a christian communist, i will try again to save your soul from eternal damnation.
as mack8 said, the article you posted is an obvious attempt to subvert Chinese social harmony by western propaganda organ. is corruption a problem in China, of course. since China is using capitalist method to improve productivity, an increase in corruption is inevitable. corruption and capitalism goes hand in hand. do you know the percentage of US congressioanl members who are millionaire? clinton was bankrupt when he left the White House, guess how much he is worth now? hint, clinton’s hobby these days is collecting luxury watches. do you know how much money NYC mayor Bloomberg made while he was mayor of NYC? the difference between corruption in China and the US is that corruption in the US is institutionalized. in China, an exposed corrupt officials are shot. in the US, most political corruption are perfect legal. of course, corruption should never be tolerated. reforms are underway in China reduce the excesses of economic reform. but even now, the Chinese government model is still superior to the US model. The Chinese government is able to constantly reevaluate, readjust its policies based on reality on the ground; undertake major reforms when necessary to meet the challenges of a fast paced modern society. while the US government is hopelessly mired in political infighting. demagogs rise to power by agitating the frustrated but uneducated American people. the US government can’t even agree to get into a boat if a flood is on the way. you suck! the Chinese people don’t want to be like you.
these facts are so obvious, as the following video demonstrates, even a child can understand them.
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjIxNjAyNzM2.html
Well thanks for your response
RoovialkBut if you were cut off or isolated as you say then how would you be able to download the blueprints for the latest technology?
RoovialkSince you are talking about arresting American criminal politicians perhaps would you care to comment on this story?
RoovialkI can see a whole lot of wishful thoughts here. Seems that the Western fans have already made their decision to get satisfied with massaging their egos with WE HAVE EXPERIENCE notion which kinda gives them assurance that the alleged superiority will last forever… I don’t think any reasonable arguments can change this stance, especially since Rooivalk has already decided that designers of J-20 are facing some tremendous problems, even if he knows (just like we all) practically zero about how the design really performs..
Well, it could be that you’re right, boys, lets’s leave it here..
Well as others here have said radar and aerodynamics work the same in China as they do in the rest of the world. And China will have to learn the ropes just like everybody else has had too. In spite of the popular beliefs and wishful thinking there are no shortcuts.
RoovialkWhat makes you say that?
Because China has no experience building 5th generation aircraft. China is trying to beg, borrow, or steal the pieces necessary for a 5th generation aircraft but assembling these pieces in the correct order is their problem. China is right now involved in a trial and error sort of thing.
Its like trying to put together a complex puzzle by sorting through a giant pile of pieces and only having the box cover as a guide. You kinda know how things should turn out but you don’t have experience with a complex puzzle of this nature.
Remember: China jumped from building Su-27 clones to building their version of a 5th generation aircraft, the J-20. That chasm is too big to span in one leap.
RoovialkRemember East Germany’s Baade 152 jet-powered airliner? It is a classic example of the problems that design team can meet when tackling something they have never done before.
I dare say that the same problem(s) are facing the designers and builders of the J-20.
RoovialkI seem to recall that this problem reared its head when the UK ordered replacement rocket motors for its Polaris missiles. The motor manufacturer still had all the machinery that had been used when these motors were originally built, and all the production documentation. But staff reassigned to tackle the UK order were unable to produce satisfactory casings, even though they were experienced in making Trident motor cases.
Eventually, the company brought in retirees who has originally operated the machinery. These ‘grey-hairs’ were soon delivering cases. They had not forgotten all the practical details that had never been documented.
Remember East Germany’s Baade 152 jet-powered airliner? It is a classic example of the problems that design team can meet when tackling something they have never done before.
An excellent example of the concept of tribal knowledge.
Roovialk“Tribal knowledge” is additive and not primary in the practice of engineering. The science is the same for everyone, and the tools to realize that science is neither static nor constrained in accessibility. By your logic the US shouldn’t have been able to catch up to the UK in steam technology.
Yes the science is the same for everybody. However when you introduce the factor of human innovation brought on by laying your life on the line the lessons go from abstract to very real. Stealth in many ways is a product of the air war over North Vietnam to where America entered that war with one set of assumptions and left humbled with some serious lessons learned. Getting your a$$ kicked tends to sharply focus the mind. And coming out of that experience over North Vietnam led to the F-15 which has led to the F-22 and beyond.
And China and Russia and the rest of the world have been playing catch up ever since.
RoovialkYou cannot claim that the F-22 is considerably superior to the previous generation, the F-15, and at the same time maintain the stance that leapfrogging in aerospace is next to impossible. If nothing else, the J-20 will sport processing power incomparably better than F-22.. Now the big question is how much weighing you’re gonna attribute to flying abilities like agility or maneuvrability and how much to features like radar range, resolution, target recognition, jamming, ECM… But I guess you already know the answer.. you just don’t like it..
It is the synergistic dimension that the J-20 lacks and will lack for the foreseeable future. America has fought several modern wars. In fact the Desert Storm air war was where the Chinese air force decided they had to get on the ball and transform themselves into something more modern if they intended to be a creditable force in the modern age. The Chinese term is “Lessons learned from others people’s wars”
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB1090.pdf
But it is one thing to be an onlooker and another thing entirely to be a participant. In in the case of modern air combat and lessons learned it is the United States which has been the teacher and the Chinese air force which has sat on the bench and tried to learn by being an observer. The American lessons have been paid for in blood
As the saying goes: “The only true knowledge is the knowledge of direct experience”
RoovialkIt’s always easier to catch up than to break new ground, especially when those behind get to use the same set of tools as those ahead. China and Russia get to design their stealth fighters with far more powerful computers, better manufacturing tools, and openly shared advances in material (and other) science(s) than the F-22. Experience matters, but it is not an insurmountable or fool proof advantage.
That “It’s always easier to catch up than to break new ground” fails to take into account the effect experience has on the development of aircraft. China and Russia both have to close the experience gap before it can be said they have “caught up”. It is the concept of “Tribal Knowledge”. And Russia and China lack this ‘Tribal Knowledge’ regarding the design of Stealthy aircraft and more importantly their complete sets of supporting systems that Scooter mentioned in his post (Avionics, Weapons, and Engines)
“….Tribal Knowledge is a term often associated with a process step of the Six Sigma process. It is often referred to as knowledge ‘known’ yet undocumented such as information that has been handed down generation to generation with no documentation. It is knowledge contained within a group that is assumed to be factual but has no known data or analysis to verify that it is factual. The Six Sigma community has adopted the term to use the description of ‘tribe’ as an analogy of a company….”
Its the unwritten ‘how we do things’ that companies and organizations possess and that those attempting to catch up lack that is the missing ingredient in the recipe between winner and second place.
RoovialkScenario of Philippines backed by American forces clashing with PLAN in he South China Sea
Description:
“South China Clash”, and featuring the US Navy coming to aid the Philippines against the Chinese in the contentious South China Sea. “
http://wfarcadia.blogspot.com/2013/12/command-modern-airnaval-operations.html
RoovialkI’m thinking stealth might quickly become irrelevant in the near future as sensors become better
examples of this are
– Python 5, which uses an optical seeker
– AESA radars, Boeing is pitching this for the F-18
– L-band radars, seen on the T-50
Stealth if used correctly gives the stealthy aircraft a first look first shoot advantage.
RoovialkYour example reinforces my point that catapult is not the “gold standard” of carrier operation. It all depends on the operational requirements. Do you see any catapults on the LHA-2 (which has been pressed into a sea control role)?
BTW, Expeditionary Strike Group? Can the USN come up with a sinister sounding name? Why must the American police state constantly send out expeditions to strike smaller and weaker nations? You may as well be flying the Roman eagle, and like Rome your imperialist days will be over too.
Primary strike aircraft of the LHA is currently the Harrier and soon to be the F-35. In case you are unaware both are VSTOL aircraft. Hence both operate from smaller deck carriers. Once the Harriers are phased out, F-35 will be the only aircraft with VSTOL capability. This makes it perfect for the sea-control mission.
SPQR.
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