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Roovialk

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Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 339 total)
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  • in reply to: PLAN News Thread #4 #2023084
    Roovialk
    Participant

    One Picture Rooivalk One Picture! Come on! That is not enough to form ANY conclusion!

    You know and I know that there are many more pictures that support the premise I am advancing. I think China is overwhelmed by the sheer complexity of carrier operations.

    The reasons why Russia has not had a larger carrier program is myriad, but the fall of the Soviet Union and lack of money is a major reason. What colour shirts the crew wore is well down the list of reasons and citing it as a major factor is borderline insane!

    In case you did not know it an aircraft carrier is a SYSTEM consisting of men and machines. Russia has not been able to master the SYSTEM. And it appears that China is on the same path.

    One will you STOP banging on about the “Dance on the deck” and two YES the Chinese are trying to develop their own ‘mix’ of carrier systems which is why it is so pointless drawing any serious conclusions on such scant knowledge!

    Sorry if it gets under your skin with me pointing out the short comings of the PLAN and their grandiose plans to develop an aircraft-at-sea program, but one thing is for sure and that is that China cannot master anything with their sole carrier sitting at anchor by the docks. That my friend is a very serious conclusion that can be drawn about the state of their carrier operations. And I am sure you realize that I am not the only one questioning the lack of at sea experience China is failing to develop by sitting dock side.

    Firstly a number of carrier nations came up with similar ideas at about the same time and secondly SO FLIPPIN WHAT! China is just adopting good practice drawing conclusions beyond that is silly!

    Compare the other carrier programs in the 20th century and you will see that the US navy has always been an innovator. Of course the British must be credited with certain innovations such as the steam cat, angled deck and certain other things but the US Navy has always been in the forefront of carrier design and tactics.

    Not this old nugget again! In what sense is it sluggish? They went from ZERO carrier experience to deck landings and as these most recent pictures show a full deployment of production standard aircraft in THREE YEARS! That is STAGGERING! Just because they don’t have ten CATOBAR carriers with huge airgroups should not diminish their amazing progress. They are actually working quicker than the United Kingdoms planned work up schedule for the F-35B and QE class carriers.

    Yawn but I am not impressed with what China is doing. Maybe you are but with the Liaoning spending most of its time dockside I still say that they are moving at a very leisurely pace towards carrier operations. China actually began its carrier program in earnest in 1987 so this fiction of achieving fantastic results in just three years is a popular but misleading myth.

    in reply to: PLAN News Thread #4 #2023108
    Roovialk
    Participant

    ???
    Did you miss the part where I explicitly pointed out the other coloured vests in the picture? Do you need me to zoom in on the picture and draw a circle around it for you?
    And jeez, do you know enough of the russian carrier vest colouring system or their carrier operations to say it’s a “step backwards”? I don’t doubt the deck crew of Kuznetsov are less capable than a USN carrier, but trying labelling coloured vests as something like the main reason for it is stupid.
    It’s also worth mentioning that having colour coded vests isn’t unique to the USN. Other navies also use coloured vests, so it’s a bit arrogant to ascribe it as the “US way”.

    I’m not sure why you keep making these massive inferences about the PLAN’s carrier operations from a few photos or a few seconds of video; you really haven’t gotten better at it over the last year or two.

    Your own picture shows the PLAN stepping away from the system the US Navy and other navies from around the world use and moving to a deck system more like the Russian navy.See picture below.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]237163[/ATTACH]

    The Russian navy has never adopted a color coded deck crew system. This could be the reason why Russia has not fielded a better aircraft at sea program

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]237164[/ATTACH]

    Maybe the Chinese are developing their own ‘mix’ of carrier systems in an attempt to achieve competency in the shortest time. The ‘dance on the deck’ is hard to master and maybe the PLAN is using their own ideas based upon the limited experience they have gathered to date. After all they do claim that the Liaong is a training ship.

    And since you pointed out all these other navies who use the colored vest system you should be aware that it was the US Navy who actually pioneered the color coded deck system that is in use today. The pictures below from WW2 tell the tale

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]237165[/ATTACH]

    Finally you should be questioning the PLAN and their sluggish snail like pace regarding carrier operations rather than my observations of this pace. Even the US Navy is aware that proficiency at carrier operations takes practice, practice, practice at sea. The PLAN seems to believe that having a carrier tied up dock side will some how result in mastering carrier operations. But to each his own.

    in reply to: PLAN News Thread #4 #2023112
    Roovialk
    Participant

    Judging from Russian carrier operations it appears that the PLAN deck crew has decided to take a step back and adopt the Russian method for task color coding. Perhaps the American method was too big a step to take for the Chinese?

    Note the orange vests below and compare this to the pictures posted of PLAN deck crew in their orange vests

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]237118[/ATTACH]

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]237119[/ATTACH]

    in reply to: PLAN News Thread #4 #2023162
    Roovialk
    Participant

    In picture one that J-15 doesn’t have its hook down for landing. Touch and go? In the second picture the deck crew are not wearing the color coded jersey’s shown in early pictures of PLAN carrier operations. What’s up? Have the Chinese abandoned the US Navy style they were trying earlier and gone to the Russian naval system.

    in reply to: PLAAF crisis #2206430
    Roovialk
    Participant

    I actually like the original title topic; “PLAAF crisis”…
    The PLAAF is in the sort of “crisis” that the likes of the RAF, the Luftwaffe, the Adla, etc, would absolutely love to be in!
    Unlike almost everyone else, its budget gets bigger year by year for decades now (nevermind that its almost certainly the Air Force with the second biggest budget on the face of the planet) , and it fields new kit at a speed that it looks like they are preparing for an Alien invasion.
    Some “crisis”!

    Yet in spite of billions on R&D being spent China still is unable to produce a decent modern jet engine.

    in reply to: Navies news from around the world -V #2024070
    Roovialk
    Participant

    The Russian developments and the papers/books you cite have as much relevance as Vectron in evaluating the DF-21D! We have NO EVIDENCE that any Russian developments had ANY INFLUENCE on China when they developed the missile! To say otherwise is PURE SPECULATION! None of those authors could possibly have first hand knowledge of what China is getting up to!

    The Russian SS-NX-13 had the same mission as what the Chinese are now trying to accomplish with DF-21D. That is to target the carrier battlegroup. In the case of the Russians they decided that a nuclear warhead was good enough. China looked at what the Russians were trying to do and decided to marry Pershing 2 technology with what the Russians were trying to do and the DF-21D was born. It is surprising that you have not picked up the Russian foundation of the Chinese anti access strategy.

    It is also important that you understand that the Chinese have also copied many other elements of the Russian system including the Russian Ocean Surveillance System. China has not produced anything new. They have taken up where the Soviet Union left off when it crashed and are attempting to weave the lessons learned from the various Okean exercises conducted by the Russians into an anti access strategy with a Chinese flavor.

    The thing that seems to have soared over your head is the technology of maneuvering reentry vehicles and the complex kill chain the Chinese will have to maintain by tracking a moving target in real time. The Russian solution was to use a nuclear warhead with its large radius of destruction. Can you with your various sources shed any light on how China will solve these difficult problems?

    in reply to: Navies news from around the world -V #2024136
    Roovialk
    Participant

    Have you heard of Vectron?!

    If not then you need to get up to speed!

    Sarcasm…

    I now understand your basis for evaluating the DF-21D. As always consider the source…….

    in reply to: Navies news from around the world -V #2024140
    Roovialk
    Participant

    No I am not going back over old ground, I base my opinions on Chinese defence based upon what I see and what little information comes out of official sources. I generally give greater credit to people like Deino who have a known record writing about Chinese defence matters.

    What I don’t do as you have is look at a picture where somebody looks serious and then conclude the entire state of Chinese training.

    I come at the subject with an open mind and a healthy degree of scepticism.

    Do the sources you use draw upon these sources (below) when discussing the Chinese efforts to develop an anti-carrier ballistic missile? If not then you need to get up to speed

    Lightning Bolts by William Yengst

    Chinese Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM) Development: Drivers, Trajectories and Strategic Implications by the world famous Dr.Andrew S. Erickson

    Anti-Access Warfare: Countering A2/AD Strategies by Sam J. Tangredi

    And of course any information related to the development of the Soviet R-27K missile which provided the inspiration for the Chinese DF-21D

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]235696[/ATTACH]

    in reply to: Navies news from around the world -V #2024159
    Roovialk
    Participant

    Frankly Roovialk you are continuing your rather silly habit of drawing conclusions from what appears in China’s entirely bias news-media and overly enthusiastic, nationalistic blogosphere.

    So before we leave this subject enlighten us all to the inside sources of information you are basing your conclusions about the Chinese military on. Please point out the objective ‘”non-silly” sources you have access to.

    in reply to: Navies news from around the world -V #2024215
    Roovialk
    Participant

    According to the Chinese military DF-21D has achieved some sort of Initial Operational Capability so that puts it beyond the wild dreams of Chinese fanboys.

    in reply to: Navies news from around the world -V #2024227
    Roovialk
    Participant

    I said that it had been hyped, not that it was hype. The first refers to how certain media outlets have talked about the system, the second refers to its capability and value as a weapons system.

    So is this untested weapon hype or not? The Chinese have been going on about the DF-21D for years and have never tested it in the way they claim it would be used. Without a REAL WORLD test it is just a proposal.

    Without a REAL WORLD test how can you refer to it as a “weapons system”?

    What say you?

    in reply to: Navies news from around the world -V #2024233
    Roovialk
    Participant

    “Many people believe” = “Roovialk believes”

    One can argue that the significance DF-21D has been overhyped by tabloid media in both China and the US, but that is what tabloids do. Certainly Chinese planners do not consider DF-21D to be the answer to neutralising American supercarriers — it is merely one tool in the toolbox. Nonetheless it is safe to assume the China is continuing to research and implement improvements over the entire kill chain.

    By your own admission you point out that the DF-21D is hype. So how can this DF-21D bluff be “one tool in the toolbox” when it has never been shown to work or tested? Some tool I would say.

    in reply to: Navies news from around the world -V #2024279
    Roovialk
    Participant

    This anti carrier technology pictured below. China has been braying about how their DF-21D is an “anti-access” weapon designed to engage American carriers off of the Chinese mainland. Yet they have never conducted a test of their system involving a target at sea. Many people believe that the DF-21D is hype. Iran on the other hand has attempted an at sea test of their system

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]235596[/ATTACH]

    in reply to: Navies news from around the world -V #2024297
    Roovialk
    Participant

    At least Iran conducted an at sea test of their anti carrier technology where China has been bragging about the DF-21 ASBM and has never conducted an at sea test of their system.

    Roovialk
    Participant

    i find this quite amusing

    Why do you find this development amusing?

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 339 total)