You still do not grasp it. It is not hard to understand really. During take-off you have select full-power on a STOBAR. There is a given length to reach a given speed related to weight and air conditions. To simulate such take-offs in ‘Saki’ for example or everywhere, you can add runway length to compensate for missing wind over “deck” or stick to zero wind conditions.
Every pilot can select full power, but very few pilots can land back on a moving carrier.

don’t put ur lack of grasping it on me ….. for the specified ground system, they aren’t going to change the runway length as u are imagining … and as said earlier, only after u’ve taken off from the carrier does the case of landing back arise …. grasp it first!

Carrier landing on a carrier deck is PROGRESSIVE , repeat it with me , Its PROGRESSIVE ….. as much as deck management is Progressive, u can’t one fine morning put all the 16 a/c plus on the deck and carry out the operation, u progressively increase the deck capacity …..

where as a Short Take-Off from the carrier deck is not PROGRESSIVE, to say it other words is that, u will be using the Full power and restraining grips to make u do that, thats the only way u can take-off in STO mode. In the case of CTO, u are thrown out …. there is a difference in that.

And for landing, u start with fine conditions (yup t/o too) and then progress to worse condition, night conditions and then to the worst of the conditions (which anyway wud only happen when the weather have changed drastically after u took off in night) …. also, in the worst of the condition at sea , no one wud launch their a/c …. probably that will also tell u the importance of a battery of SSM on board … when no carrier can launch their a/c to fight, u launch ur damn SSM ….

The only thing that Indian pilots can learn from the US is by the use of T-45 trainers and that coz of the lack of same with IN and nothing as u guys want to credit with – operating from . Other than that i don see any valuable contibution that can make to a STOBAR carrier like Gorshkov as if the K pilots are trained from the CTO carrier, then they will have to go back to training for the STO, which means that traning from CTO wud be just that – a BIG Wastage of time and money, in addition to exposing ur Pilots!

Add to that the fact that the IN will still be operating the Viraat with Harriers in STO mode on the ski jump.

what does that mean???….. btw, Viraat will be retiring after Gorshkov comes in and the SHARs are going to do their duty onboard the Gorshkov

well so did it happen yet?!

wat do u think?

I think India would seriously consider buying a small number of JSF’s in the future for its ADS Carriers. Of course much would depend on continued good relation with the US and how the JSF matures over the next 5-10 years.

yup thats a good one too and thats y my take is for the M-MRCA, demand the JSF from the Yanks …. rather than begging for the older stuffs …

Only back in 2003 or 2004 did the Russians do their first night-time carrier landing, would you want India to succeed in such a thing in 2020? I don’t think so… So it’s better to gain some experience in such operations form someone who’s used to it.

i hope u weren’t sleeping for th holw last decade and more …..

You missed the point. The real art about carrier operations is landing back under the worst conditions too. To train the real thing you are in need of a “carrier” moving at ~30 kn and creating some wind-state over deck. Related to sea-state those landing deck has some motion to cope with. The pilots have to do this “stunt” in night-time and adverse weather with a minimum margin of error.

Sitting on a flight-deck and select full power could be done by a “monkey”, to describe the least demanding part.

Landing is an issue, but that issue comes only after u’ve taken off in the first place. And no monkey can take off w/o air speed. So a static ski-jump that do not have the luxuary of a moving ship and the air, is more challenging for the pilots to get it right w/o crashing with nose to the ground. To simply write it off might be showing the ignorance on the same or a fully biased outlook.

BTW, the MiG-29K was said to make its first flight on 25 Dec 2005 …

Good news that in the future it will get the 10 t thrust engine, but there has been talk abt 11-12 tonne engines as weell …. hope, the first one to be delivered have the 10t engine …

from the indiadaily article linked to above

So it seems the deal will include carrier training. And a single carrier fleet like the Russians just can’t match the availability of the USN. The Kuts after all only seems to put to sea once every year or so.

But feel free to continue bagging US deal on purely idealogical grounds if thats what it takes to get you through the day.

Daniel

well, tell me the reason as to y US want to invite the IN pilots to train with them?? … its not that Russia is not porviding the training….. so it ccud be either of these —– as said earlier — to understand their caliber, to claim credit for the best naval pilots, to get whatever little money that they can get from India (to see it goers notwhere else) ….

I don get h the cat launch wud give valuable training to a STOBAR pilots … i hope u do agre that both are different and so can the difference be felt from inside the cockpit too ….

c’mon u can call whatver o the ideological grounds, but I’m not yet ready to blindly take the ‘offers’ as faithfully granted as long as my BACKYARD is not firmly under my control and have the authority to kepp my BACKYARD the way I want it to be …

That’s not a suggestion Austin that is a real fact (you only seem to agree with facts when it fits with the Russian-is-best supposition)
It’s a general fact in physics that a round/sperical shape has the best division of forces compared to other shapes. That is also why Batiscaphs, the very deep diving vessels are of a round/cilindrical shape.

The Mystic is a good example of that.
And why do you othewise think the Russian subs have a cilindrical pressure hull (s)? Because the other shape is better?

well u forgot to look to the Mir class of deep submersible when u talked abt “DEEP” …. bias?

and neither does the DSRV go as deep as the Mir sp ops submerisbles …. but thats not to say that cylindrical shape is not the better one …

k posting one more on the same …

Russia to Deliver Arms and Combat Equipment to Iran for a Billion Dollars

A package of contracts for the delivery to Iran of Russian arms and combat equipment was signed at the end of November.

“The total for these contracts is more than one billion dollars. Mainly, these are air defense systems,” a source in the Russian defense industrial complex reported to Interfax.

According to the agency source, in the period from 2006 through 2008, up to 30 “Tor-M1” air defense missile systems will be delivered to Iran.

The agency source also reported that an agreement has been achieved on the upgrade of the aircraft equipment in the Iranian air force inventory. According to him, as of today, the Iranian air force fleet of MiG-29 numbers 35 aircraft, of Su-24 tactical bombers – 24 airplanes, and of Mi-8 combat transport helicopters – more than 30.

Moreover, Russia will deliver patrol boats to Iran’s naval forces.

The agency source noted that no international limitations exist today on the delivery of armament and combat equipment to Iran. “At the same time, practically all the weapons which Russia will deliver to Iran in the coming years bear not an offensive, but a defensive nature,” the source added.

The “Tor-M1” air defense system is produced at the Izhevsk Kupol Electromechanical Plant which is included in the Almaz-Antey air defense concern. The “Tor-M1” is the only system in the world which is capable simultaneously of detecting and identifying up to 48 targets and tracking and firing at two targets at once which are flying at altitudes from 20 to 6,000 meters.

The “Tor-M1” air defense system is intended to defend important government, economic and military objects, first echelon ground units from anti-radar and cruise missile strikes, remotely piloted vehicles, gliding bombs, and airplanes and helicopters, including those made using “stealth” technology.

The “Tor-M1” air defense system has been delivered previously to Greece. As of today, there are 21 “Tor-M1” air defense missile systems in the Greek armed forces.

Source: 02.12.05, Trud

Vladimir Radyuhin from “The Hindu” also reported abt the sale of 30 Tor-M1 system and so does it mentions that talks are underway to sell long-range AD system, S-300PMU1, radar stations and T-90S tanks. But the a/c mentioned include 59 a/c (MiG-29s & Su-24) and do not mention the Mi-8 (buts its a high possiblity) and so does it mentions the patrol boats.

she is a beauty man ….. $hit the Indian politicians did not had the guts or the needed intelligence when it came to National matters to see to it that they made a deal for the design transfer of the CVF with the Hawk AJT deal .. which was a baddly need one for the Brits to save 2,200 jobs …

Jeff Head,

The second & 5th pic in ur link is not Gorshkov