Speaking of Russian missiles..

Not sure if this is an anti-ship missile of some kind, but the big white weapon in this photo has had me bugged for ages.

Its mounted on an Su-34 by the way.

What could it be?

if am not wrong thats Moskit …… the front profile and the side looks like the moskit…..

Vympel got any more info on the work on radars …

well is it a necesary and a standard fitment for NATO membership that Russia bashing is a baseline necessity??….. damn __ man ….

but what abt this damn thing?….. noone really cares?…. and US of A is not gonna put on holdd their ____ policies unless someone kick their ___ yup and here the __ means none other than the American invinciblity – the Carriers (any doubt?) … take one out and U’ll find a dozen Hollywood movies to bring back the morale of the US, after all Jessica Lynch added one more to the list of movies made my pentagon, so more will come ….

well but it just for the Norwegenians to get their __ kicked if at all when Russia decides that enough is enough!

———————–

Cold War in Northern Europe

May 20, 2000
Independent Military Review

“The north of Europe unique in many respects and presents many opportunities for cooperation between Russia and Scandinavia, despite of the existing cultural and historic differences. Such cooperation should be promoted by political and military stability which until recently was supported by the official policy of Norway adopted in late 1950s prohibiting military exercises involving foreign troops in the northern territory of Finnmark as well as prohibiting deployment of nuclear weapons in the country. Political and military stability in the region should also be promoted by the traditional neutrality of Sweden and Finland.

Further improvements in relations between North European states and the Russian Federation were also made possible by the December 3,1997, announcement by the Russian President during his speech to the Swedish parliament that Russia will considerably reduce the number of its ground forces and sea based forces in the Leningrad military district and in the Kaliningrad region. In the late 1990s the total number of Russian troops in this area was reduced by over 40 percent. Russia also reformed control and command structures of its armed forces in the region. These unilateral steps by Moscow transformed the northwestern group of Russian forces into a strictly defensive force.

At Longyearbyen, Svalbard archipelago Americans are building a space tracking facility.

At the town of Varde, Finnmark, the US and Norway constructed a long-range radar.

Northern Norway and northwestern Russia

Political map of the region

Contested territory of the Barents Sea continental shelf

During discussions regarding the conventional armed forces in Europe agreement Russian representatives announced that Russia has no plans to change the current military and political satiation or to deploy any additional considerable military forces in the Kaliningrad and Pskov regions on a permanent basis.

It seems that after making all these friendly steps Russia could have expected a similar response from NATO. However, reality of today is quite different.

Norway increased its efforts to reduce and, ultimately, eliminate Russian presence on Spitsbergen and to erode the demilitarized status of the archipelago, while increasing Norway’s control over it. Norway’s foreign ministry began working on widening the 200 mi. economic zone around Spitsbergen, the island of Medvezhy, and the area of the sea adjacent to the Nordland region. The main goal is to take control of the rich energy and biological resources and to resolve the issue of dividing the continental shelf in the Barents sea in Norway’s favor.

The decision by Norway to backtrack on its policy not to conduct military exercises with involvement of foreign troops to the east of the 24th meridian in the Finnmark region will do little to improve the country is relations with Russia. As the result of these decision by Norway the NATO is now able to explore regions adjacent to Russia’s borders under the guise of the “Partnership for Peace” program. The first of such actions was the “Barents Peace 99” military exercise in which Russia refused to participate despite of Norway’s persistent requests. Norway applied a great deal of effort to persuade Russia to participate in these exercises, which would provide Norway with de facto approval of its policies by Russia.

An F-16 fighter jet of the Royal Norwegian Air Force

P-3C Orion

HNoMS Narvik (F304) Oslo-class frigate of the Norwegian Navy, photo by Ian MacCorquodale

Kobben Class Submarine

As a part of the “Globe II” project in the north of Norway near the town of Varde the United States sponsored the construction of a powerful radar which, according to the Russian military, will be used to gather intelligence information about the launch of ballistic missiles from military bases located in the northwest of Russia. The new radar station allows for an effective control of airspace over the Arctic.

The United States also participated in construction of the testing facility near New-Olesund on Spitsbergen for launching American “Terrier-Black Brent” research rockets designed to study interactions between Earth’s magnetic field and solar radiation. However, who can guarantee that this facility will not be used to design future antimissile defenses?

Also on Spitsbergen near the town of Longyearbyen, as a part of the SVALSAT project financed by NASA “80 percent”, by the American airspace firm Lockheed Martin, and by the Norwegian space center, Norway has nearly completed construction of a sophisticated center for tracking of objects in space. By 2002 Norway plans to deploy powerful radar and signals intelligence systems, control and communication systems, and polar-orbit satellite launch facilities on the Svalbard archipelago.

The United States is attracted to the Arctic basin because of this is one of the most likely area of combat between Russian and American submarines in case of an armed conflict. Currently the U.S. Navy has about 30 submarines equipped for conducting combat operations under the Arctic ice cap. Every year American submarines carry out up to four training missions in the Arctic. Under the guise of American-Norwegian scientific research projects, which have obvious military applications, the United States is conducting extensive oceanographic studies in the area.

The 6th Division is the main element of the Norwegian ground forces

Norwegian Bell 412 helicopter during the Cooperative Jaguar ’98 NATO exercise

Finnish troops debarking Norwegian Bell 412 during the Cooperative Jaguar ’98 NATO exercise

Danish and Swedish MP exercising together with Norwegian Bell 412 during the Cooperative Jaguar ’98 NATO exercise

Norwegian helicopter flying low over Oksboel terrain during the Cooperative Jaguar ’98 NATO exercise

It may seem that the Cold War was left in the past, however, NATO’s military activity in northern Norway is at an all-time high. The alliance is conducting yearly naval exercises testing its ability to deploy troops. A tactical scenario for such exercises foresees a military response by a multinational alliance to a conflict between Russia and Norway caused by the territorial dispute related to the continental shelf. Thus, during the “Battle Griffin-99” exercise about 23 000 troops from the United States, Canada, Great Britain, Norway, Germany, Netherlands, France, and Denmark, supported by 150 aircraft and 50 naval vessels, practiced establishing control over economically-important regions of the continental shelf of the Barents sea.

Since February of this year NATO initiated in a series of exercises called “Joint Winter 2000” in the Barents Sea and in the Norwegian Sea involving considerable ground and naval forces from 12 NATO members including the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland. During these exercises NATO worked on its response to a conflict between Russia and Norway developing from a political dispute to the level of a localized armed conflict.

It is absolutely clear that the once politically stable north of Europe is being turned into a military standoff zone by the United States and by its NATO allies, who see this region as a place for a serious political crisis and in and for military operations.”

Himanshu,

hey pal tks for that 🙂 and seems like u too like hyperwrap got that am a bit lazy 😀

If Serbia did acquire the MEKO then I think the more probable weapons Serbia would purchase would be the two MICA missiles or Derby and the Python series of missiles. I also agree that Serbia does not need fighters. That is why the MEKO is a great choice. It is an advanced trainer with good fighter capabilities. So for the money Serbia would be getting an advanced trainer to train her pilots for future advanced aircraft and would also give Serbia a fighter capability to defend her air space.

well then they cud acquire either yak-130 or mig-AT which wud do the same and will cost much les to and these two are more tested than the MAKO , by that the Russian –French combo for the MiG-AT wud get a customer and if for the Yak-130 then they wud probably will get some more good offers, after all unlike MAKI the Yak-30 has a high AoA and wud put to shame many frontline American fighters if it’s this case. …… but unfortunately, the Italian one seems to catch up all the limelight as they have made this Russian design much appealing as the Russian’s still have to catch – up in marketing, visual appeal, and other stuffs …… in marketing their wares

On another point if people live in a country that don’t even field an air force then I don’t think that person should be able to post on an Air Force web forum. Especially when their posts are just cocky remarks that try to belittle everyone just to help their ego.

SO any one here who THINKS that Serbia don need an Air Force??…….. any Serb had any slightest of such thinking on that matter coz of it demanding money to be pumped in???………. well if YES, the above one will clear ur minds once and for all and it shud clear, else I’d have to call anyone with such thought as DUMBS …… now this applies to every nation and more importantly smaller nations, as if u don have a means to defend urself , any damn Hick or Darry wud like to make use of ur ____ even for a ‘passtime’, after all these pastimes are what finally make sales for the ‘futuristic’ weapons and that’s what the Noble powers do these days ….. do those who like to down their pants and bend over, its ur choice to all u guys , but not surprisingly there are many _____ so they won’t mind doing ….. OH but I was talking abt ppl who have some DIGNITY!

What I’d like to tell u guys is that – Serbs or any other nation – consider ur nation as ur body and ur body needs to be healthy so as for u to move forward and develop and that’s what all guys need to understand. (Something that dumb politicians back in India don understand) ….. there will be no use of huge cash reserves in ur pocket if ur not healthy and cant protect it, coz any damn ______ wud rob u in broad daylight and u can see that in todays world! … and there is no use crying abt what u have lost coz if u got ur health, u can defend urself and that will also make the other fellow not to pre-empt for ur pocket as he will have the feeling that if he did , he is surely gonna get hurt and that robbery wud only pay for licking his wounds. …… and wud u keep ur body weakening if u happen to have infected any disease or have broken ur hand or leg, just coz taking in medicine wud cost u money? , well I guess not and no sane one wud do that coz if that’s the case then it wont be long b4 u might need a coffin or just wud need someone else to support U all the time and in turn that means that ur totally dependent on them for even S____ and that’s what I wud not like any sovereign nation to become, be it Serbia or any other one. Stand up on ur feet , do have the determination to think for urself and formulate whats best for ur nation and just don ape whats thrown at u and don be cowards to accept the most acceptable word for the some western world – “ back the winner” ….. coz that’s synonymous with cowards and dumb pragmatism w/o any kind of morals what so ever.

Its sud not be that u be begging to be included in a group, but it sud be that the group wants u , else the group will always almost and mostly will be ignoring u, I know its hard to standup , but its not impossible either w/o any outside hand

Well carrot dangling is all grr8 for many but then do keep what ur nation has as its wealth intact (else , unfortunately as Thailand, become the biggest brothel, Japan is no better, etc etc, seems like the sex Tycoon has more linking for Eastern European gurls nowadays and now they have got many marriage agencies in Russia , God Knows whats happening to those , or is it that Yanks want a change from their usual stuff – S__S?) coz every part of the world has its own peculiarity and its wealth be it in the form of culture, human resource, morals etc etc which a marketing world wont understand and wud like to take and make all the world as a single sample and apply the same formula all around where by destroying the very base of what u were and for a nation its identity lies in its history and not what ur today. Coz otherwise there wud be many claiming – look they don having anything, the language they speak is ours, their dressing is of the other fellow, their food of of the another one etc etc and a future generation wud just have to ponder as to what actually was theirs, if these all were not theirs!

Now these are all need to understand (again I don include those categories) and do rem that those pretty B______ who speak of peace , arms race, low budget etc etc only speaks these after arming themselves to the teeth, am not saying pump in to military to the brim, but pump in enough so as to make urself secured

Well sorry if i said that it is sarcastic but thats how it sounded when i read the number of 120 Mig-29s my country should have.As i said,we dont have the funds and need for that and if we wanted to buy that many airplanes West would think we are getting ready for war again.

My opinion is still that Gripen is the best solution,only if it comes with all the weapons and it is not downgraded but ok MiG-29 SMT could also do the job especially cause we have the infrastructure and also we can overhaul the engines for it but we do not need more than 40 aircraft.

Concerning my whereabouts, i have lived in Serbia most of my life but at the moment i am studying in Germany.

Well actually it was my fault and u don have to be sorry abt that, I dashed into the thread, and did not read what was going on, so I just put what I felt was needed for Serbia to put on hold any offensive in the future of the like that NATO undertook in 99 and that 120 or 6 squadrons of MiG-29’s meant for air-superiority and also if necessary for strike with their improved 5,500 Kg of combat load was what I had in mind with a few sneaking in to do strike on offshore carrier with their 2 x Klub’s , air-bases, other installation etc etc.

Yup if u r considering leasing Grippen to be best suited I do differ and do take note that Sweden is the most so called ‘peace loving’ doves on the planet, but conditions apply for that ‘peace’

(An Indian order for 410 Bofors is still there with neither the damn ___ in Indian MOD saw to it that ToT part is pursued with the AB Bofors coz of the scandal which marred the deal nor do the Swede’s want to transfer that now for which the India paid for in late 80’s. The Indian Army also had to import at a huge sum the shell from SA during the 1999 Kargil war as the doves wud not give away anything that’s meant for war, but now these doves are eager to compete for the IA’s need of 400 heavy artillery pieces)

…. So u need to look inot the doves part too, they can do the same blockade for the Grippen’s too and not to mention the American part that can pose problems.
And since the funds is the main problem here and so does future supports for the product is has to be taken into account these things –
– How much amt will be the Grippen be leased for, and will it be less than for a unit of upgraded Mig-29SMT
– How much combat value will the Grippen have or will not have over the MiG-29SMT
– How many Grippen or MiG-29SMT will come for the same amount invested
– How much more will be required for the supporting infrastructure and training involved
– What all and how much diverse weapons suit will Grippen offer over the MiG-29SMT
– How big radii wud u be able to have with the strike weapons that will come with the Grippen over the MiG-29SMT
– How much compatible will it be for future use
– Will it gaurante that this same Grippen wud be effective against NATO a/c and bugs and Trojans are not bundled as bonus for these lease etc etc …

It wud be like having faith that a Saudi F-15 wud be able to fight against an Israeli F-15 etc etc …

I think 20 Mig-29SMTs would be enough as a stopgap measure along with 30 upgraded J-22 Oraos. They would offer much better capabilities than 20 leased Gripens or 20 early F-16A/Bs which would not offer the same capabilities even if we got all the weapons for them, however we probably would not. Not to mention it would require a whole new infrastructure to be built to support these aircraft.

If anything I wouldn’t mind scrapping the J-22 Oraos but having extra Mig-29SMTs. So either 20 Mig-29SMTS+30 upgraded J-22 Oraos or 30-40 Mig-29SMTs.

You could buy 15 Mig-29As for about anywhere from 3 to 13mn dollars, upgrading them would cost anywhere from 1-5mn extra.
It’s not much for such a good capability.

I hope we do the same thing as Slovakia does, good thing they decided to keep their Mig-29s and not buy anything new, however they could’ve, they had the option to buy anything, we don’t but they still decided to keep the Mig-29s because they didn’t have enough money to lease Gripens or buy anything new.

Yup if 20 a/c is what u consider as stop gap measure for air-superiority , yup its k as that amt is not gonna make anyone feel threatened, but still having one squadron more is not gonna threaten anyone either if the rest of the Mig-21 are to be retired.

Vympel, i guess the Mig in that article that i earlier said abt was spoeaking abt this one .mean the NIIP part as the NIIR was the one associated with the RAC-MiG , so if the Indian’s want to have a smaller dia bars like 980mm like what Zhuk MEh …. that means NIIR loose its part, and maybe thats what the MiG oficial meant when said that some one is poaching their share ….. hey can u give me the link to this one?

and cant all tese threads be included into one, as there are many MiG-29 related, like one this one abt radar, the other one abt which versjion is the best, MiG-29M2 … so was thinking y not combine it to one under the M2 or possibly change the thread named M2 to MiG-29M2 & K so as to widen the thread ….. and put all these stuffs in there ….

wasn’t it reported that HAL built MKI wud be like $27 million or something….. but surely to be below $30million mark?

and whats it that abt Brazil?…. Su-35? ….. weren’t they in the process of goin in for Rafales?….. or is this a new contract?…..