CAT1Just a reminder that this is the JF-17 thread.
JDW May 9 2007
Russian-built RD-93 aero-engine looks set for export to Pakistan.
Russian industry sources have confirmed to Jane’s an earlier report stating that the
Kremlin has given permission to China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation
(CAIC) to re-export to Pakistan the Russian-built Klimov RD-93 engine.
The engine is the powerplant for the JF-17 (FC-1) lightweight fighter aircraft being jointly
developed by CAIC and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, but India, a traditional customer of
Russia, has strongly opposed the export of the engine to its rival nuclear neighbour.
The Moscow business newspaper Kommersant had previously reported that 150 RD-
93s would be supplied to China as part of a contract worth USD238 million.
The engine isamodified version of the MiG-29/-35 fighter’s Klimov RD-33 engine, but
has been redesigned for a single-engine configuration with the accessory pack rotated in
order to accommodate maintenance and servicing on the JF-17.
The Russian press reported that the decision to permit the re-export of the RD-93, and
the signing of the actual contract, were all overseen by Russian President Vladimir Putin.
However, sources in the Presidential Administration hastened to add that permitting
China to supply these engines to Pakistan does not mean that this is the beginning of a
long-term military industrial partnership with Islamabad. The contract is strictly a “oneoff”
deal, according to sources, and does not imply any future co-operation.
Lobbying for the approval of the contract apparently came more from the high-level
interaction between the Chinese and Russian governments than from Russian industry.
Russian industry representatives state that this was an entirely political decision into
which they had minimal input. Rosoboronexport, the Russian state arms export monopoly,
and the Russian Defence Ministry were reportedly involved in the deliberations.
The RD-93s to be shipped to CAIC will be supplied by the Chernyshev engine plant in
Moscow. The contract will be administered by Rosoboronexport and initial deliveries will
begin this year.
This may appear to bring an end to a contradictory and long-running saga, which has
seen claim and counter-claim from Indian, Pakistani and Russian sources. In February,
Russian industry sources told Jane’s the engine would not be permitted to be exported to
Pakistan; less thanamonth later, Pakistan said approval had been granted.
APakistani government official responding to the RD-93 report said it has only confirmed
what Pakistan had been saying all along: that the engine issue was on its way to being
resolved. Over the last year, Pakistani officials have repeatedly said that they have been
assured by Chinese officials that supplies of the RD-93 will not be halted. “We proceeded
with the knowledge that this wasn’t as big a deal as was being talked about,” said a Pakistani
government. “We are glad this licence issue has been formally resolved,” he added.
Western defence officials in Islamabad said the Russian decision may have been prompted
by expectations of rising demand for the JF-17 fighter aircraft – so far delivered by China
only to Pakistan. “The Russians probably see future demand for the JF-17 coming potentially
from parts of Asia and Africa in the long run. Their decision must have been a commercial
one, knowing that this project has a future,” said one Western defence official in Islamabad.
Reuben F Johnson JDW Correspondent, Moscow
CAT1The JF-17 is on track to achieve the project requirements. i.e. relatively cheap, agile, bvr and precision weapon capable, modern avionics and radar, available in large numbers, safe from sanctions, local manufacturing input, modern replacement for F7’s and Mirage’s, a genuine threat to anything in the IAF and a crucial part of Pakistan’s minumum credable detterence.
You would think that a fighter which has achieved or is likely to acheive all of the basic requirements set out for it would be hard to put down – just shows you what you can do if you are motivated.
First all efforts were aimed at convincing us that the JF-17 could not be delivered with Russian engine — now that particlar bubble has burst — we have moved to convincing everyone that this fighter is so poor that it is irrelavant – perhaps the IAF chief didn’t think so when he was writing to his government asking for the engines to be blocked.
CAT1I have read up sunshine, pakistans efforts have been pathetic so far.:mad:
O wonderfull, pointless hate rant ‘articles’ aren’t enough – lets see if we can start debating terrorism on the JF-17 thread – naturaly thats what you would come to a military aviation forum for.
CAT1It is not my intention to point out at who destroys who. I also see IAF as a much stronger force than PAF but I don’t reeally want to go down this road.
If I look at India, I see the biggest importer of Russian high-tech hardware in the first place, a beloved customer, one of the few that is actually willing to spend huge sums of money on top of the notch Russian stuff, not just surplus MiG-29Ss. And if a customr like that shall demand *no support for Pakistani RD-93*, I fail to see a force from the Pakistani or Chinese side that would actually prevent that from happening.
OTOH, I don’t see any war between India and Pakistan anytime soon, therefore I think this debate is largely academic.
The same beloved customers request – at the highest level – for RD-93 to not be allowed for Pakistan — seems to have fallen on deaf ears.
CAT1Don’t get me wrong.. As I said, Pakistan will have a pretty potent force well suited to their real needs. As long as you quit the ridiculous idea of messing up with superpowers, you will see that you have more than adequate air cover.
Assuming India is the ‘Superpower’ I would agree that the current PAF modernistaion plans would obviously still not give it superiority over the IAF in all out war – BUT – what it will do and has always aimed to do is deny this ‘superpower’ ridiculous ideas like ‘hot pursuit’, ‘pre-emptive strikes’ i.e. getting free run of Pakistani airspace.
In short Pakistan – like it keeps saying is aiming for ‘minimum credible detterence’.
CAT1From the looks of the pictures – these look like production versions. O thats gotta hurt.
Two Fighter JF17s arrive in Pakistan
Updated at 1850 PST
jang.com.pk
ISLAMABAD: Two Fighter Aircrafts JF17s Thunder have been handed over to Pakistan, it was reported on Monday.
The arrival ceremony of the JF-17s Thunder fighter aircraft, jointly developed by China and Pakistan was held at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra.
Chief of the Air Staff Pakistan Air Force Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed was the chief guest at the ceremony which was attended by senior ranking officers of Pakistan Air Force and visiting Chinese delegation.
The chief guest inspected the JF-17 Thunder aircraft and met the pilots, engineers and technicians. He greatly appreciated their hard work and devotion for translating a dream into reality.
The two JF-17s had arrived in Pakistan in the first week of March, 2007.
The chief guest, on his arrival at the ceremony, was received by Air Marshal Khalid Chaudhry, Chairman Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Board, Kamra and Air Vice Marshal Farhat Hussain, Chief Project Director JF-17.
The JF-17 Thunder aircraft is scheduled to have its first public appearance in Islamabad, on March 23, during fly past of National Day Joint Services Parade.
JF-17 Thunder aircraft is an advanced multirole Light Combat Aircraft jointly invested and developed by China and Pakistan. It is a key collaboration strategic project between two countries in the military field.
The project has made great success through tremendous efforts and contribution by both sides.
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed, Chief of the Air Staff Pakistan Air Force, was the Chief Guest on that historic occasion.
The flight tests of prototype aircraft in China are moving forward smoothly.
In order to speed up the development progress and to facilitate maturity of JF-17s, two aircrafts have arrived in Pakistan for further tests and flight evaluation by Pakistan Air Force.
The flight evaluation to be conducted by PAF will be a great deal of help in improving the performance of aircraft and making the JF-17 aircraft more competitive and reliable.
__________________
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070312/481/isl11003121449
CAT1The News 30-01-07 – Mayed Ali
The pair of the first JF-17s (FC1) will thunder across the skies of Islamabad on the Pakistan Day parade on March 23, The News has learnt. The nation will witness the first fly past of the roaring Thunders, saluting the President and guests in formation. The fighter jets will be painted in the Pakistan Airforce colours bearing the PAF’s insignia and the Pakistani flag. These two fighters are expected to land in Pakistan on March 10 as part of the already envisaged delivery schedule. The fighterjets will be fully operational before the fly-past and will be combat-ready after a few adjustments at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra.
If the engine is a problem — perhaps someone should tell Pakistan:D
On an earlier thread someone said about this project’ well thats it then – someone turn the lights off on the way out’ – guess someone better turn them on again:D
CAT1From strategypage.com…….
Russia Allows Export of RD93 to Pakistan
November 24, 2006: Russia has relented, and will now allow China to export it’s new JF17 (also known as FC-1 and Super 7) fighter to Pakistan. Pakistan has paid for much of the development expenses., and was not happy when Russia insisted that, because the FC1 uses a Russian engine, the RD93, China could not export the fighter. Russia did not want to offend India, a major arms customer, by being one of the suppliers for FC-1s used by Pakistan (an enemy of India). Pakistan also has a deal to build the FC-1 itself, using Chinese and Russian components.
The 13 ton JF17 is meant to be a low cost ($20 million) alternative to the American F16. The JF17 is considered the equal to earlier versions of the F16, but only 80 percent as effective as more recent F-16 models. The JF17 uses the same Russian engine, the RD-93, that is used in the MiG29. The JF-17 design is based on a cancelled Russian project, the MiG33. Most of the JF-17 electronics are Western, with Italian firms being major suppliers. The JF-17; can carry 3.6 tons of weapons and use radar guided and heat seeking missiles. It has max speed of Mach 1.6, an operating range of 1,300 kilometers and a max altitude of 55,000 feet.
The JF17 first flew three years ago, and the aircraft is expected to enter service next year. China is trying to build an engine equal in performance to the RD93, but isn’t quite there yet. Pakistan planned on buying 150 of the JF17s, but now says it may build and buy as many as 300.
The Russians say they relented because they realized that if they did not sell the RD93 engines to Pakistan, someone else, an European or American firm, would come in with a similar engine and get all that business. Apparently, this argument was sufficient for the Indians, who did not go out of their way to interfere.
CAT1Pakistan set to get eight JF-17 fighter jets next year
Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:11 PM IST
By Aamir Ashraf
KARACHI (Reuters) – Pakistan is set to get the first batch of eight medium-technology fighter jets from China next year and the country would start manufacturing them locally from January 2008, a senior military official said on Wednesday.
“We shall…have the first two (JF-17 Thunder fighter) aircraft on March 23rd, while the remaining of the first batch of eight aircraft will also arrive next year,” Air Marshal Khalid Choudhry, Chairman of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, told Reuters.
“The hardcore production of JF-17 in Pakistan will start in January 2008.”
According to the agreement between China and Pakistan, once full production starts, half the planes would be produced in China and half in Pakistan.
Chengu Aircraft Design Institute designed the aircraft and the prototypes were manufactured by Chengdu Aircraft Industry Company — both based in China’s Sichuan province.
Choudhry said the medium-technology aircraft, a joint production with China, matches the Mirage in performance but has better avionics and weapons.
Air force officials said the JF-17 could achieve a speed of 1.6 Mach, altitude of 55,000 feet and carry weapons of modern warfare.
The JF-17 are due to replace the ageing fleet of Mirage 3 and 5, A-5 and F-7 aircraft.
Choudhry said the Pakistan Air Force was looking to acquire 200 to 300 such aircraft, while the Chinese Air Force would also acquire some.
“We plan to start producing 20 to 25 aircraft every year from 2008, and they would be the main strength of the Pakistan Air Force,” Choudhry said on the sidelines of a four-day arms exhibition in the port city of Karachi.
He said Pakistan also planned to export JF-17 once its full production started in the country.
“This aircraft will cost less then $20 million, so it is a very attractive equipment for the third world and developing countries who has small air forces and small budget,” he said.
“A number of countries have already approached us,” he said hoping that Pakistan Aeronautical Complex would start getting orders from other countries by next year.
Pakistan is mainly dependent on imports from the United States, France and China to meet its defence needs.
Last month, Pakistan and the United States signed a letter of acceptance for a multi-billion dollar package to supply the Pakistan Air Force with 18 new F-16 warplanes, as well as an unspecified number of upgraded second-hand F-16s.
The United States will also sell Pakistan missile weaponry and other support infrastructure, and upgrade Pakistan’s present fleet of 34 old-model F-16s.
© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.
CAT1It takes a while … but it’s worth to take a look !!! :diablo:
http://www.sonicmodel.com/topicdisplay.asp?BoardID=23&Page=1&TopicID=1739889
… below is a short “pre-view”
Cheers, Deino 😀
I couldn’t get that link to work – can you tell me what scale that model is / manufacturer etc??
CAT1Wonderful to see the engine ‘issue’ put to bed at last. Looks like previous PAF statements were correct afterall and Russia has been saying one thing in public and something different in private. Guess it didn’t want to rock any boats before absolutely nessessary.
Credit to Golden Dragon for being on the mark as usual.
CAT1Anyone been to this forum. Looks like the american instructors have a very poor opinion of the PAF pilots. It does seem to confirm the lack of enthusiasm PAF has shown in any recent conflict (Kargil or shooting down of atlantique).
How do you know any of the posters are American instructors. If I posted that I had contacts at Moody AF base and they had told me that Pakistani Pilots were the best in the world – would you also believe me?
CAT1The following is copy of a post by tphuang on the Chinadefence forum – not alot new but some interesting points:-
an interview on CCTV7 with the test pilot for JF-17 prototype 4
http://military.china.com/zh_cn/impo…/13502537.html
apparnetly, the guy interviewed participated in the J-10 test fire flights.
How is the new Jian’s radar and AAM combination?
Very Good
Is the MRAAM PL-12?
Yes
How is its hit rate?
Very good
Can we say that the new Jian already has full combat capability?
No question, you just need to see the the speed at which regiments are converted
Is J-10 using DSI?
Not changed to DSI
No change? I saw numerous magazine with JF-17 style DSI for J-10
J-10 definitely hasn’t been modified, but I don’t know about later variants
Is Pakistan satisfied with Jf-17?
Rather satisfied
Is 04 at hand over condition?
yes
so, the ones handed over to Pakistan for production is 04 airframe?
yes
What’s your analysis of JF-17? Is it easy to fly?
2.5 to 3rd generation. The avionics and weapons are completely third generation, very easy to fly.
(again 3rd generation in China = 4th generation)
CAT1Ask CAC, they would not tell you that Pakistan is a co-developer. If JF-17 was really produced to PAF requirement, why is it that Pakistani side was so surprised to see some of the stuff placed in prototype 4?
All independant reports I have seen show Pakistan as the 50% partner in the ‘joint’ project – Please confirm sources for this being a purely Chinese venture. How do you know that the Pakistani side was surprised by some of the stuff placed in prototype 4?
CAT1can everyone get back discussing paf? this thread is not about comparing india and pakistan. certain posters come here to agitate others. mods please intervene and get this thread back on topic.
I would love to discuss the PAF – but certain members are not on this thread for that purpose – they are here to put down anything that Pakistan does – and ‘prove’ how superior their nation – and by extension they are in comparison. While one tries not to stoop to their level it is difficult when every time you come to the thread due to genuine interest – you see these clowns merrily at work. If I realy wanted to cause mischeif I would go to the IAF thread and ask an ‘innocent’ little question — and there are plenty of them. But I don’t.
Latest copy of Flight International has a report saying that Turkish / Pakistani F-16 orders will keep the production line open until 2010 – Does anyone have any idea on delivery schedule for Pakistan’s F-16’s? — The above would suggest delivery by 2010 – but would this be 18C/D’s or 36?
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