I challenge you to PROVE your claim that I lied. Either prove it or let it be known that you don’t have the auqaat to face facts.

Mods,

This is an unwarranted personal attack.

Very interesting that you seem very keen to defend yourself with regards to lying – but don’t seem remotely bothered by the allegation of selective misquoting – any reason for this?

The report in the October AFM that Pakistan has selected a chinese radar and chinese avionics for the JF-17 is very good news for the project. This will reduce any chances of delay and allow smoother weapons integration etc.

Pakistan had eirlier rejected Chinese options as not upto the required standards. They had however told China of their requirements and as the Pakistani project director indicated in an earlier interview with AFM – Chinese companies have proved themselves upto the challenge. It is an indication – as the AFM report states -of how rapidly China is advancing in these fields. 🙂

This would be true, if the US did control whether and when these F16s could be transferred to the PAF. There is no difference between selling it yourself directly or through a middleman. I think Pakistan is looking at used F16s to supplement the FC1 for more than their unproven superior ground role. Firstly it could be a lack of confidence in the FC1 program and F16s could be insurance against slippage in the FC1 program, or the FC1 itself not being up to spec. Secondly, they are desperate for some sign that the US actually views them as an ally and will support their needs even to the detriment of India. Third, the PAF prides itself on being a “western” airforce thereby inherently superior to the “Russian” IAF. It is hard to pretend that you are western when almost every fighter you have is Chinese. Fourthly, they do not want to be completely dependent on the Chinese, since in the past the Chinese have shown a tendency to be ruthlessly practical and cut loose supposed “allies”.

Sorry but I find it hard to agree with most of what you say. The most important reason for Pakistan continuing to request F-16’s is very simple. Pakistan already has the infrastructure to maintain the type, training for pilots on the type etc. Therefore adding additional examples of the type would add little to overhaeds – compared to aquiring a new fighter. Any aquired are also expected to cost Pakistan very little. If the whole fleet could also get some type of upgrade there maybe the possibility of having a BVR gap filler until the JF-17 comes on board in larger numbers. At that stage the Vipers could be reallocated air to ground priorities.

Using the F-16 issue as indication of ‘lack of confidence’ in the JF-17 is a deliberate and cheap shot. The suggestion that there is any chance of China cutting loose Pakistan as an ally – while a dream come true for some – is just that, a dream.

To some degree I agree with your point about the PAF’s traditional preference for western equipment. Although I think this trend is changing slowly. Firstly because Western equipment is largely unavailable and secondly due to the great strides China is making in this field. Latest reports suggest Pakistan has approved a Chinese avionics package for the JF-17. I also think Pakistan will eventualy get J10’s. The rather lame argument that China will not sell its secret fighter doesn’t wash. China will give / sell the most sensitive of items to Pakistan risking international condemnation / sanctions – but will refuse to sell a fighter? I don’t think so.

Originally posted by sharmaji
CAT1, if I called you an sob, I doubt that your views would change, this is wat I have to put up with when I quesiton the FC-1, I am no nationalist, only pointing to obvious facts that certain real nationalists like to conviniently forget. My attitudes towards the FC-1 are from the CAC website and the link that our kind Shamayel has posted, I read 80% as capable in aerodynamics as a baseline F-16, I read an 8.5G limit compromise, from CAC, I read “approaches” the 3rd gen Chinese standard etc… Mind you for saying what these websites say, I was accused of being an sob, hope you understand some of the anger.
Now as far as your sd-10 comment, just because a missile range is longer does not make it better, if that was the case then we would be seeing more long ranged missiles rather than concentration on the TECHNOLOGY INSIDE THE MISSILE, like anyone else you have no idea how advanced the sd-10 will be, claims that it will be better than French missiles are premature! Do you know what kind of counter counter measures the sd-10 will have?
no

the way the missile will discriminate, the flight performance etc, then how can one claim that its better solely on range, come one that is rubbish just like the claim about the K-8 FBW being easily edited to develop the FC-1 FBW and the low amount of flights required, case in point, no wonder the ac has only flown so little in 8 months, it may well have an FBW but its own, not an edited version of the K-8 as phrozenflaer claims.

And Sd-10, the shamayel link talks about a sustained turn rate of 12.xx deg a second, go check it out, although it is not from CAC and not official, I have to take that into consideration since you have yourself used non CAC links such as stormpages to proove your points, we cannot suddenly become hypocrites when it suits us.

i won’t even bother with the “stealth by design ” FC-1 theme because people may start using foul urdu on me again 😀

‘I am no nationalist’?:p ………….please you realy should give people more credit.
Lets see now…….this is an aircraft under development and as such much of it’s capabilities are not finalised – you attack virtualy anything positive anybody has to say about this fighter.
Another fighter is under development in the same subcontinent – LCA – much of its capabilities are also not finalised – but on that thread I find you on the other side of the fence – you seem to greet with open arms any bit of positive info posted and defend this aircrafts abilities in virtualy every post. I couldn’t find any posts where you poked fun at the long development of the LCA (you defended this point) or stated anything negative at any stage.
This is quite a contrast, don’t you think? What is this contrast down to if its not nationalism?
I don’t deny my fondness for the JF-17 but at least I don’t go on the LCA thread and spend half my life slagging it off.

Originally posted by Kussikap
I think this Non Nato Ally decision finally confirms that Pakistan has caved in and allowed US “handle” on its leaky nukes.

Can’t imagine the US giving nuke delivery platforms to a nuke trading nation unless there are no more nukes to be delivered or traded 😀

You seem to be hurting bad over this anouncement. As for your dream of the PAK nukes somehow getting whisked away – I think thats all it will stay – a dream.

1) i am unlikely to get anything through your rather thick headed skull
2) you are unlikely to get out of your delusions

Your above comments can be applied to you perfectly – especialy when you finish of buy saying ……….. wait for it……BTW LCA is bradly comparable to gripen in both field performance and the level of technology involved. – I knew I’d get that laugh:p

‘just because two aircraft are in the same weight categories dosent mean you should start comparing them. you have to tale into account a dozen other factors the least of which is the level of technology involved in each aircraft. a comparison of the two aircraft here is rather stupid. there is no comparison to speak of. one is technologicaly far supirior to the other.

What exactly do you think this ‘technologicaly far superior’ aircraft should be compared with? Grippen? Eurofighter? Rafale? F-16 block 50? go on I could do with a laugh.

Personaly the 1 thing that I feel severely lets the LCA down is its design – canardless delta. Can’t think of any successful fighter in the last 25 years anywhere in the world with this layout. Even the Mirage 2000 has small fixed canards.

‘yaaaaaaawn………………………..
and again the infamous sources for the FC1 development happen to be the sister’s girfriend’s aunt’s butler’s lesbian girl friend’s cook’s dog’s food supplier’s uncle in the PAF.

its funny how the first prototypes have no FBW and then all of a sudden the next two prototypes have a full digital FBW. oh and the aircraft will become operation in the next three years and this also after the next in line prototyps have a digi fbw. pakistani egns must be genious to be able to do this so quickly. ofcourse then there are the composites. the earlier prototypes didnt have them but the next ones will. now why didnt the rest of the world follow the FC1 example and add such critical technologies in mid testing phase instead of before the prototypes were assembled? comopsites may change drag coefficients, CG, wing properties, air flow properties but hell who cares. its PAF right? all this with a digital fbw will be made operational by 2006-2008. great going.

ofcourse then there are those pics of FC1 manouvering which according to some people here was enough to classify FC1 much more manouverable than LCA. but those were the first two prototypes now werent they? so why was the whole pakdef gang wagging its d**k at the thought of those two prototypes having a fbw? it was very much possible back then ofcourse. truly pathetic. and ofcouse the composites.
if i remember correctly most of you went on to degrade composites and about how they are not good and not cheap to maintain. the resin comes of, they dont last, shatter blah blah blah. in other words PAF did the right thing by buying an all metal aircraft because it was not in its budget or expertise to maintain them. now ofcourse this has become a matter of common sense. you guys should get an award for that one.
and the same people who claim that the balance of air power is readressed in the region due to PAF getting 50 mig21 clones to counter MKI are saying this. frankly if its those AF people that your friend met then they ont understand jack about how you make an aircraft. are they feeding you bull? or is your friend feeding you bull? do you even understand the problems with inducing composites in the in testing phase of an aircraft? do you know what goes on when feilding composites to an aircraft? or you may just end up altering the entire aerodynamics of the aircraft. and ofcourse this will happen with a digital fbw (which takes about 5-10 yrs for othrs countries to hardwire) and all the avionics which have still not been finalised. all this is supposed to happen by 2006-8 too? amazing. you people must have some brains working for you at PAC. good luck with you childish fantasies.

Edited to correct the spelling mistakes. sorry. still getting used to the new keyboard layout.’

Wolverine — you seem to be hurting bad about this JF-17 thing. I would suggest some serious help. Whats up can’t bear to see a half capable fighter lining up for the PAF?

:p