When I said that F-16-50/52 is superior? I said it is the best aircraft in PAF service (atleast for next decade) and the only aircraft that can challenge IAF’s complete air dominance in the region, thats it. Nothing more than challenge! If PAF don’t manage to buy a new generation western fighter (like what happened to Gripen acquisition) than there will be nothing left for PAF in the next decade. They need a fighter that has capabilities to win against much more advanced IAF fighters not just challenging. We did lots of exercises with F-16 50/52 via many countries and will get a hand on the most advanced F-16 ie F-16IN aka Block 70. We know that in its current configuration F-16IN has very rare chance to win the MMRCA contract against EFT, F-18E/F Block-2 or Rafale, now forget PAF Block-50/52! Again IAF is getting array of radars, satellites and above all PAK FA!

This is why Pakistan is lining up the FC-20 with AESA radar – which should be suitable opponent for most of your list — the PAKFA is some way off — and suitable counters will emerge over the next decade.

As for challenging / winning — Pakistan’s stated goal is ‘minimum credible detterence’ —— ie your combined forces have sufficent detterance value to stop any aggression from the opponent. I think their current aquisitions and plans are well in line to maintain this.

Excellent Youtube of SAAB Erieye induction. Never seen ACM look so proud as when he is receiving the picture of the Erieye.

Endbit for non Urdu readers he goes on to state

all F-16s delivered next year. Chinese AWACs in final negotations ready for 2011. Italian SAM in 2011. First JF-17 operational Sqd in June 2010.

Busy times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJxx3BZexj8

I think there is slight miss reporting by the press — I am sure what he actualy says is that the remaining 3 SAAB aircraft will be delivered by end of 2011 and that Pakistan is in negotiations with the Chinese for AWACS aircraft and once the negotiations are complete they will be in a position to sign the contract ie he does not give a timeline for delivery of Chinese aircraft.

I was a bit surprised by this because – based on previous Government statements – I thought this was a done deal. Probably what they have done so far is agree the requirement, arrange credit — and left PAF to work out the details / performance requirements / evaluation before signing the dotted line.

Regardless – very exciting times for the PAF indeed and despite limited resources – well on track for maintaining ‘minimum credible detterance’.

India was not making another ‘Erieye’. And is not the country who hopes to pass everything to the Chinese want! There are certain international rules and understandings are there about transfer of weapon systems specially WMD and missiles that India and other countries need to obey. There are also End User Agreement (EUA) and Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) etc etc….

The post you quoted has nothing to do with International Rules or end user agreements – If you are going to quote a post it might help if you make your reply relevant to it in some small way??

Which grapes are sour? for whom?

Why do you think that KJ 200 = Erieye? In case ‘if’ they are similar than why Pakistan went for Erieye instead of KJ 200 which China already launched?

Pakistan has actualy gone for both the Swedish and Chinese option.

Nobody said the J-10 was a stolen Russian fighter. It’s a stolen US one. 😉 Actually Israel sold them Lavi info much of which was created and funded by the US. Without the US’s permission of course.

So nobody said the J10 was a stolen Russian fighter?? Please read the headline of the article and the article that this thread is based on — as ridiculous as it is — thats what it says.

No, but it does make that comment about “F-16s arent the only PAF fighters with advanced avionics” hyperbole.

What Ankush is accurately pointing out is that the F-16s themselves dont really have that advanced avionics vis a vis todays aircraft (unless PAF sent 6 Block 52+ types which I doubt are in service, yet) and the other PAF Mirages are likewise. I mean, even the A2A ROSE Mirages are at best, limited upgrades & dont have some really necessary capabilities eg BVR.

Avionics are not the only consideration either, unlike what redgriffin implies.

Note, India sends its Su’s and Mirages for exercises, not the Bisons, which in someways are ahead of the ROSE Mirages in terms of avionics. And in prior cases, it appears to have sent non upgraded Jaguars abroad as well. Clearly its not the avionics alone that count. Thats what makes redgriffin’s comments somewhat dubious.

What Redgriffin said are his comments – and I’l let him explain what he means / defend those comments if he chooses to do so.

My point is not about which avionics are better and which aircraft India usualy sends — My point is that – just because PAF’s participating aircraft are outclassed by others in the exercise does automaticaly = PAF will learn nothing & no point in PAF participating (which is what Ankush was alluding to) especialy when so little is known about what exactly the PAF is doing in the exercise. Usualy PAF F-16’s participate in such exercises, I am guessing that the Mirages are there because the role in this exercise is more relevant / usefull to them.

First 4 f16 block52 to be delivered dec 2009.

That is good news — Whats the source?— All the reports I’ve seem to suggest first deliveries in the middle of 2010.

Thats rich coming from you. You ask for facts when you have failed to provide a single shred of it yourself and also don’t seem to recognize a fact when it hits you in the face.

For the nth time. China has never before exported their most capable domestic fighter until they had something better. That is a FACT.

What the CAS said is just a comment that, I have already explained explicitly multiple times, could be interpreted to mean any number of things and proves nothing.

Actually, you look it up kid. Firstly, the J7 and Q5 were not considered to be China’s most capable domestic fighter, the J8 was. And secondly, China did not sell Pakistan anything better then what their own forces used because the PAF F7s and Q5s were empty shells that the PAF added western kit to, and it was that which made them better.

Again, a classic case of someone not able to distinguish fantasy from reality.

I don’t see and ‘FC20s’, whatever they may be, in PAF colours. Do you? Yet you are treating it as if it something that has already happened.

You also seem to have a serve case of having blinders on, as you keep ignoring the facts I have stated that does not suit your wishes. Such as the many examples I gave before where what Pakistan got from China being clearly inferior to equivalent kit China produces for itself, not to mention the huge number of systems that Pakistan would clearly benefit greatly from having, yet does not operate despite the fact that China has been operating those systems for many years.

Finally, if you cannot grasp the concept that nations would not bicker in public like a couple of teenage attention whores and might keep embarrassing news regarding a close ally out of the world press, then I am clearly wasting my time with someone who should spend less time talking and more time learning.

All your so called ‘facts’ amount to nothing more than your views based on assumptions and imagination. At least I refer to an official source to back my stance that PAF has asked China to make improvements to the J10 including AESA before they aquire in 2014 and China is obliging (even though you choose to ‘interpret’ those very clear statements to mean something totaly different) — in any of your posts have you refered to a single source?? And you think I’m the one with blinders on.

So if close ally’s don’t bicker in public as you put it —I ask again -why is FC-20 aquisition in 2014 public knowledge. Would it not have to be kept secret until China approved?