predChances of success seems remote when everyone else has been biting their teeth out on these already, but lets try before all it revealed. No1 looks Iranian to me. No.3 might be a Spanish Descubierta OPV or MCM support ship Diana.
predThe Mk 56 VLS are either side of the Mk 49 RAM launcher, jutting out from the hangar. So add that to topweight.
predI have heard convincing stories from officials on both sides and the truth is somewhere in between. Under a new government from next month it could all look different again.
Two things I would like to add here.
“It’s like ordering 20 F22 and being delivered with 19 F22 and 1 YF-22 (test prototype), modified to be within the parameters of the production line F22s, but not identical in everything to them.”
Absolutely true, but there is a price and risk involved in going with new technology. And unlike aircraft with ships someone has to buy the first-of-class and work through teething problems. Show me a FOC that did not have issues and required unique solutions, later fixed in the follow-on units. Greece would (or should) have been aware of that when it selected the particular design over proven 209s. And then a YF-22 modified to series production standard is still more of a F-22 and not a F-16.
On the mid-life refitted 209s I am not surprised schedule and cost have taken a hit. Such extensive work on old boats (20+ years) always throws up surprises. It may appear cheaper to refit rather than build new at first, but in the end it may be false economy.
predTwo things. (Tango, I know these quotes are attributable to the Telegraph piece and not you)
The frigate HMS Northumberland, which is armed with guided missiles, torpedoes and a Lynx helicopter, was due to be sent on patrol to the islands this month. But it will now be replaced by a Royal Fleet Auxiliary (RFA) vessel not equipped for offensive combat operations.
I was under the impression that frigates did not venture down there for permanent protection of the islands in any case. For that the Royal Navy has had dedicated, and very lightly armed Falkland Islands Patrol Ships (previously the 2 Castles, and now Clyde). Northumberland would have been in the area (Carribean, South Atlantic) and available at a couple days notice.
“It is outrageous that the British Government would ever diminish the protection of our strategic interests in order to pay homage to the politics of the EU.”
So protection of vital shipping routes and international trade is of no strategic interest to us at all? Maybe we have been wrong all along and this country is not an island after all? Protection of shipping is nothing but an EU gimmick? This is not 1982, but it is still all about politics. Did anyone bother to ask the sailors that are going to be deployed about which mission they expect to be more rewarding, challenging, and ultimately more worthwhile? I know what would get my vote.
predTwo factors to this: size and weight.
The SH-2 requires a bigger flight deck, but you cannot simply extend it and add another supporting brace since the SH-2 is also more than twice as heavy at takeoff and landing and the whole deck would need to be either strenghtened considerably, or preferably be cut off and built new from scratch. Both efforts would require considerable time and money for assessment and then certification of structural issues, loads and stresses, airflow, seakeeping etc. And then a couple million $ later you might still find out that you cannot actually land a helicopter, or have to rebuild half the hangar as well because there’s a few centimetres missing somewhere. Difficult enough on a new ship with all the documentation and digital data like HMAS Sirius, much more so on 20 year old ship that is somewhat worn and has little life left anyway. Save the money and put it back on the table when the replacement debate kicks off.
predHull plugs?
Certainly possible. On a new ship though? And how many case studies of successful naval ship hull plugs are there? Better to work with more generous margins up front, and pay for the priviledge.
predOfficials have confirmed that the OPV Otago is already around 100 tons overweight and thus in trouble when it comes to performance, sea keeping, ice strengthened sections being lower in the water than planned etc.
I’d hazard the guess that all available margins have been blown and there is nothing left to add bigger guns, radars etc.
predMy crystal ball says the following about the future: the USA and Russia will have about the same number of SSBN (around a dozen each). The US will also have about 35-40 SSNs while Russia will have around 30 SSNs, SSGNs and SSKs.
The US submarine fleet will be larger, but not by much.
Official US plans say 12 SSBNs of a new class and back up to 48 SSNs by 2035.
Russian plans are not well documented beyond the 8 or so by 2015, however that is unrealistic at the current pace. Long(er) term plans seem entirely unavailable, but maybe there are published/known target force levels?
Someone else to watch is China really, but I am going increasingly off topic.
predSo what about a 40mm AGL aboard a ship for close-in deterrence?
Probably not enough range, slow and almost ballistic projectile, and problems with using the impact fuze and explosive charge on water. It has been seen here and there for use on estuaries, rivers etc where you would attack land targets. Think Colombia, Venezuela etc.
predWhile all the caveats above may be true and direct comparisons are difficult to pointless, it is worth keeping in mind that the USN is due to fund 2 Virginia class SSNs a year from 2011 and will keep buying 2 per year at a steady rate until 2030 (as well as Ohio SSBN replacements from 2020). Production and design is thus pretty healthy over there, no matter that this rate is evidently not enough to sustain the fleet inventory at current levels as the old Los Angeles boats retire and decline to around 40. I do not see those levels of construction in Russia, never mind being able to completely fund refits and modernisation of the existing boats, some of which have been in doubt for some time. The industry has suffered a lot between 1990 and now.
predBut there is no good reason to do it either. As already noted, the venerable M2HB does the job far more than adequately at lower cost and with less maintenance than any gee wiz this is really cool to watch on Futureweapons solution.
When it comes to visual deterrence, it does indeed. In terms of combat effectiveness a stabilised mount hooked up to IR directors and a combat system is preferable in my opinion. Which is why vessels currently have both a pair (or four) Mk 38 and a selection of 12.7mm, 7.62mm M240 and miniguns on bridge wings etc. In future this line up will also include laser and acoustic (LRAD) warning/deterrence and will be increasingly automated. See Shipboard Protection System (SPS).
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=161199&d=1206190263
predWarships tend to have better internal separation of watertight sections, damage control features etc, they are built to withstand damage from armaments and can weather the odd storm. Though, as historical precedent shows they can sink. Whether this is due to human error (leaving the odd hatch open, trimming, steering, speed) or mechanical, structural etc is open to debate, but I would guess the former. Googling “warship sinks” would likely bring up results on Sri Lanka (active combat), India (collisions with merchant vessels) and smaller naval craft hit by Tsunamis in South East Asia.
On ferries sinking, some of the factors have been outlined already, but there is also the fact that ferry disasters are big news because they imply large numbers of casualties. There are fair numbers of cargo ships (mostly smaller coastal types) sinking, but these are less well reported internationally (local media yes) due to smaller number of crew involved, unless they are cases of pollution, heroic rescues, or them becoming navigation hazards and being hit by another few passing ships as in the case of a car transporter in the English channel a couple years ago.
predI have yet to see any illustration or details on Fastwind.
You have now. Meet Fastwind.
A derivative of the Gowind 120 by the looks of it. I understand this project is now discontinued and efforts concentrate on the Gowind series, which can go 30+ kts with the CODAG twin diesels and triple 5000hp gas turbines.
predGermany never acquired Oto 76mm Super Rapids as far as I know. The existing “classic” 76mm Compact Otos were upgraded, but cannot be upgraded to Super Rapid standard (maybe a sales policy, more likely a technical issue). Similarly, a stealth cuppola has not been offered for these older guns. The newer frigates are equipped with surplus mounts scavenged from the formerly 40 strong FAC fleet, much of which was sold abroad, but some were scrapped or laid up at home.
On the efforts of planeman, very well done. Maybe a sign of the times that us modern folk need visual stimulation to help us realise anything of importance. I would, however, second calls for more direct comparison between stabilisation type frigates (F125, Absalon, FREMM > may be of use for the ongoing UK RN C1/2 debate) and littoral combatants and corvettes (LCS, K 130/131, Visby, Gowind, VT’s Khareef “OPV”, Schelde Sigma series, UK RN C3 etc).
predOk, had no luck with group/wide angle pictures, so detail it is instead.
I am looking for the classes and/or names of 3 vessels (one of which is in 2 pictures) and a submarine.
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