I agree on Gripen C, range was too low, it was my catch with that fighter.
But there is no deficit on Gripen NG, it compare favorably with larger jets,
and is in fact a medium weight fighter.
That slice you posted (I know from Saabs marketing department) is quite funny. So all aircraft fly with M 1.1, but the F-35 can’t supercruise? Why does the Gripen need a minute more for the same range at same speed? Why does it compare the Gripen with 4 AAMs vs 2 on the F-35 and 8 on the Typhoon? That’s what I call nonsense!
What nonsense.
Brimstone weighs half of what even a sidewinder weighs,
Gripen NG out-ranges EF with the weaponry suited for this campaign,
for a fraction of the cost.
Really and what is that cost fraction and range advantage in quantities?
France warns of end of Rafale fighter jet production
“If Dassault doesn’t sell any Rafales abroad, the production line… will be stopped” once France has received the 180 aircraft it has ordered, Defence Minister Gerard Longuet told a small group of journalists including AFP.
Longuet said maintenance arrangements would continue for all completed aircraft and that French Rafale orders alone would keep the production line going until 2018 “at least”.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/1170033/1/.html
Thanks for the informative post Scorpion82.
You are welcome. Btw I have updated the post to correct an error and to add the latest information I have gathered.
It certainly was, though it would be nice to know how they weighed individual factors like raw performance, endurance, range, EWS, sensors, weapons etc. The Rafale certainly scored well, it’s worth noting that the Rafale conducted about 60 test flights, the Typhoon around 45 and the Gripen some 30 or so.
It’s worth noting that the Janes article states “Rafale exceeds the minimum requirements… most clearly“. As in one newspaper article (I think it was the Baseler Zeitung) mission endurance and payload have been criteria pointed out in the first place. In this light it’s absolutely not surprising that the Rafale scored so well with its payload/range advantage over the other two types. Anyway it’s a pity that the Rafale didn’t made it, but there are still plenty of competitions which could materialize into deals. However, I’m a little bit pessimistic after all these failures, the French really need to rethink their strategy as it seems to be the main cause for their failures thus far.
Sum it up and it becomes super advanced Vietnam era ADS.:D
These numbers are what the Swiss army evaluated. It’s possible that they might be different under different circonstencies.
Those data are based on what the manufacturers provided or not. The data about the Rafale are the very same as given by Rafale International on their Swiss website. This has nothing to do with the evaluation results. But it’s funny how some people already try to pass them as “evaluation” data, even some self proclaimed and “oh so professional experts” (Not you Mildave).
I think at the end of the day we all agree that export successes are rarely a true indicator for performance/capability, though the results of evaluations can be.
mrmalaya,
The case of corruption in Austria is a reality, not a mirage. So it is perfectly valid to talk about it. That’s not like if I assumed something or making an interpretation. Here we are talking about “jail sentences” that were actualy issued against the person who accepted monay from EADS. If we are to believe some this kind of business is always “pure” when we all knwo is not the case. Sometimes some are caught accepting things they should have turned down. The fact that J. did not even mention it is quite a partial and bias interpretation of this deal which undemines its credibility just like for Japan.
Thus far the recent scandals are centred around Austrian citizens and IIRC they are related to the contracts concerning building contracts for Zeltweg not related to the Eurofighter deal itself. The former AAF Air Chief had contacts to a weapons seller who was contracted by EADS. The personal links existed for many years already and thus far nothing could be proven, though the Air Chief was suspended. However, if something had been found the Austrians would have cancelled the deal as they were doing their utmost to achieve that goal, it was actually promised by the winning government party. The validity of Eurofighter’s selection was also confirmed by the Austrian Bundesrechnungshof three times in total!
We’ll see wrt the variant of the Gripen. I haven’t followed the Swiss competition for a while and it was the C/D for sure which was offered in the past. As said according the original schedules deliveries should have been launched in 2013, this will now be postponed to 2015 or latter so there is at least a chance that we’ll see the NG. I’m nonetheless surprised afaik there were no renewed offers, but I may have missed that bid. I’m certain we’ll know more in the not to distant future.
@mrmalaya
But has the Gripen (any variant) been selected by the Swiss air force? It seems to be being implied here that it is an offer/entry to the competition, rather than the one selected and given the contract?
Yes it has been selected. Financial terms are yet to be finalized and a final decision is expected at the end of 2012. The final decision more reflects the agreement on the purchase in general and the acceptance of the financial terms.
The Gripen would have been a better fit for the Austrians as well, it was largely owed to the fact that the Swedes were so sure to win the Austrian competition that they offered a price which was just 3% below that of the Typhoon. Looks like the Swedes have learned from this error.
It was always the JAS 39C/D which was on offer and there is no indication that this has changed. However, it might be possible that the Swedes may incorporate some NG elements as deliveries have been postponed due to the general delays in the selection process. I wouldn’t bet on that however as the budget is tight and there is probably little room for exchanging the C/D for the E/F (NG) without affecting the price of the package which would render the arguments somewhat useless.
The fact that the US sent their B2 stealth bombers should tell you something about the Lybian air defences…
The fact that the Rafale was there with A2SM (no cruise missile yet at that point) should also tell you somthing…
I have to agree with Seahawk here, where were the aircraft flying, where were targets struck with CMs… These questions are always avoided and not covered at all. Even Rafale’s conducted CM strikes with Scalp, makes you wonder why…;)
The Typhoon did not come close :rolleyes: ! It also took quite its time before been deployed, and I havn’t heard anything from Spain and Italy…
Typhoon didn’t came close when it comes to the range of missions flown and as a lower number of Typhoons were deployed it’s hardly surprising that they didn’t amass so many missions/flight hours.
But why took it “quite some time” to deploy the Typhoons? Typhoons from the RAF were deployed on 20th March and started to conduct first missions the following day! Rafale’s flew out of their home base which was much closer in comparison and it certainly makes little sense to sent fighters on a 3000 miles round trip for a CAP!
That the UAE were impress is a fact. Things went from discussing technical capabilities to price only (If you’re not convinced just look for yourself).
The UAE found the performance acceptable and was convinced that the Rafale is good enough as it is. They don’t want to pay for uprated engines anyway.