Scorpion82So if that is you Scorpion, how come :
And this below from the attachment seen previously!?
What made you change your mind?
Tay.
I didn’t change my mind, the question I raised was whether the RADAR can acquire AA and AG targets simultaneously. That the Rafale can engage AA and AG targets simultaneously is yet another topic as different sensors can be used to do so (i.e. SPECTRA/Damocles to target AG targets and RBE2/OSF to engage AA targets). You must read more carefully and more importantly not interpret things into what’s being written.;) I usually mean what I write and don’t hide secret messages into my posts. So people should limit themself address what’s being written and not what they make up of that by interpreting to much into what’s being said.
Scorpion82Maybe it was during this event?
7 May 1979 Three F-16s complete four-month-long environmental and opertional test program in Europe.
http://f-16.net/timeline_1979.html
First European F-16s were delivered the same year.
Scorpion82Thank you Sintra,
btw do you have any information about the inauguration dates of the EdAs 111th and 112th Escuadrons? And are there any more up to date information about the planned formation of the Ala 14’s 141st and 142nd Escuadrons? The last info I had suggested that the 111th sqn was inaugurated in May 2006 and the 112th sqn was scheduled to stand up in 2009, with the 141st and 142nd sqns being equipped with Typhoons from 2011 and 2013 respectively.
Scorpion82This can’t be correct (F-16).
From F-16.net
…However, in May of 1975, the first YF-16 made its first transatlantic flight for a sales tour to its potential NATO customers, and put in an appearance at the Paris Air Show. …
http://f-16.net/f-16_versions_article25.html
Also from F-16.net
8 Dec 1976 Maiden flight of the first FSD F-16A (#75-0745).
and
8 Aug 1977 Maiden flight of the first FSD F-16B (#75-0751).
Scorpion82It would have made some sense if such a decision would have been made some years ago, but it isn’t viable anymore given the development and production state of the Su-35S.
Scorpion82CFTs are also desirable for stand-off strike missions with large and heavy weapons (such as Storm Shadow etc.) being fitted. Only the inner centre wing station can accommodate them and would subsequently prevent the aircraft from carrying external drop tanks (except for the CL one). This is a clear limitation wrt the aircraft’s range performance in such a configuration. CFTs would be a solution to that issue and I think that this is actually one of the reasons why the RAF is heavily interested in those CFTs.
Scorpion82@Quadbike,
the Su-35S is not only on order, but already in production so this order won’t be cancelled anyway. The Su-30MKI would just be an additional type with all the related issues wrt operational costs etc. The Su-35S per se is a more advanced and capable airframe either and the Russians rarely introduce foreign made avionics etc. in their aircraft for a number of reasons. Further developing the Su-30MKI by adopting new technologies from the Su-35S would take time and cost money. The Russians probably look for a rather quick induction now given the high average age of their fighters currently in service. I think that they will use the Su-35S as a fighter anyway and not so much as a multirole platform, but that’s only my guess.
Scorpion82Typhoon AESA focus
As I spent some time to write this as a PM reply, I thought others might be interested in it as well.
(c)scorpion82
It is difficult to say how advanced the Captor-E is right now. The participating companies gained a lot of experience through the tri-naitonal AMSAR programme which was launched back in 1993 and the bi-national CECAR programme launched in April 2002. Both programmes have been concluded by late 2008.
AMSAR (Airborne Multirole Solid-state Active-array Radar) was a government funded effort between Germany, Great Britain and France involving GEC-Marconi (now Selex Galileo), DASA (now EADS Defence Electronics) and Thomson-CSF (now Thales). The goal of the AMSAR programme was to develope the technology required to design an airborne fighter sized AESA radar. The first prototype was ground tested in 1998 feature an antenna with 144 TRMs. Around 2006 it was stated that a full demonstrator would soon be flown, featuring a 60 cm antenna with 1000 TRMs. It’s not known when, where and on what the prototype has been flown, but as the programme has been finished it’s likely that the tests were passed successfully somewhere between 2006 and 2008.
CECAR (Captor E-Scan Risk Reduction) was a German-British effort specifically aimed at developing an AESA solution for the Typhoon based on the existing Captor radar. CECAR’s main goal was to develop the key technologies which are critical for an Captor AESA radar and the programme was government funded and completed around the same time as AMSAR.
In parallel to the CECAR programme the EuroRadar consortium launched the self funded CAESAR programme (Captor Active Electronically Scanned Array Radar) with some 14 mln USD being invested. The CAESAR demonstrator was based on the Captor-D radar then in production for the tranche 2 aircraft, retaining its receiver and radar processor. 3 new LRIs were developed, integrated and successfully ground tested by late 2005. These components included a new power supply, an antenna control unit (ACU) and the AESA antenna itself holding some 1426 GAa based TRMs designed by EADS Defence Electronics. The CAESAR demonstrator was subsequently fitted to the BAC 1-11 radar trials aircraft, which was previously used for the original Captor/ECR90 development. The CAESAR was first flown on this aircraft on 24th February 2006 and a 5 week trials campaign was conduced with 7 test flights being performed. The CAESAR was operated for some 21 hours and reportedly performed well and in some cases beyond expectations. Trials included multi target detection and tracking of aerial targets and the generation of SAR maps. As CAESAR retained the software from the Captor-D it didn’t offer any additional modes or capabilities by that time. This first campaign was used to gather data and validate the basic design. Industry sources back then suggested that the demonstrator comes close to a production ready version and insisted that with a contract a productionized version could have been ready by 2011/2012. The CAESAR was then fitted to a Typhoon to check that the system fits into the aircraft’s nose and check out the connectivity to the other interfaces including the power supply. The German BWB (federal defence technology and procurement agency) then funded a small trials campaign aboard Eurofighter prototype DA5. The first flight with the CAESAR was conduced on 8th May 2007 and a total of 4 flights were conducted to test the system in the Eurofighter environment including its interaction with other onboard systems. The CAESAR was then again fitted to the BAC 1-11 and has been trialed at Manching somewhere around late 2008/early 2009. The current state is unknown however.
On top of that Selex designed its Vixen family of AESA radars on offer for smaller aircraft and developed the ARTS demonstrator (Advanced Radar Targeting System) as part of the Reforger programme. ARTS was developed in 2007 or so and was a demonstrator for an AESA radar slatted for the RAF’s Tornado GR.4s. While the RAF hasn’t ordered it the UK MoD sponsored demonstrator has been successfully tested and was use to investigate into Elecontric Attack functions and developing the swash-plate AESA antenna which has now been integrated onto the ES-05/A Raven demonstrator onboard the Gripen Demo.
There were certainly other programmes among the members of the EuroRadar consortium concerning the development of AESA radars and certain related technologies.
In February 2010 the UK MoD has signed a contract with Selex to develop another new AESA radar demonstrator for the Typhoon. This demonstrator is scheduled to fly on a Typhoon in 2013. The development of this demonstrator is decoupled from any multinational effort and is Britains fall back option in case a multinational development fails. Experience gained will nonetheless flow into the any multinational effort. EuroRadar has started pre-funding the development of the Captor-E radar somewhen back in early 2010. A final configuration has been agreed on and full scale development has been launched in July 2010. The pre-funding will likely finish in a few weeks. There has been no recent news about a formal commitment and funding from the partner nations, but it could be that such an agreement won’t be announced. We’ll see.
According the current plans Captor-E should be ready by 2015 and given the achievements up to date I think the schedule can be met and that India will receive AESA equipped Typhoons from the very beginning. Of course there is a risk of delays, but I think the chances are looking good that Captor-E will be ready in time, the back up option of a UK funded solution exists as well.
Scorpion82Some news on the AREOS here:
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/122576/new-recce-pod-broadens-rafale-capabilities.html
…The AREOS Reco NG pod is 4.6 meters long (15 ft.) and weighs 1,100 kg (2,420 lb), making it compatible with the Rafale, as well as the Mirage 2000 if needed. Up front on the pod, the HA/MA (high altitude/medium altitude) optical sensor supports photography at medium range, or even long-range at standoff distance. The AREOS Reco NG offers an identification range of several tens of kilometers – two to three times the range of the Presto pod currently deployed on Mirage F1CR aircraft in Afghanistan. …
Scorpion82^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gee, mate! You must have a Doppelganger or something :
😎Good night all, Tay.
No it’s actually myself;)
@GoldenPawn
The French air force’s first squadron of four AESA-equipped Rafales is expected to become fully operational by 2012.
A squadron of FOUR Rafales? What squadron is made up of 4 aircraft in the AdA? Also note the number matches the number of LRIP examples which will be fitted to batch 3 Rafales for OpEval… To cut it short these aircraft are most likely those airframes earmarked for the OpEval. Batch 4 examples were originally meant to be delivered from 2012 onwards, but this date appears to have slipped to 2013. Anyway only batch 4 examples will receive the aircraft as default. The 4 LRIP RBE2AA are fitted to batch 3 examples as described before. In other words this press release isn’t really contradictional.
@c-seven
I don’t know about RAVEN but for the Eurofighter SELEX one (closely liked with the RAVEN) some British officials espect 2015…. if funded.
The only thing we don’t know yet is if 2015 is the pre-production (of the pre-funded) radar, like say late 2008 for the RBE2-AA; or if it’s the operational one like the 2012 RBE2-AA.
Captor-E isn’t exactly closely linked to the ES-05A Raven. What is more or less common is the use of a repositioner, though it appears like they will be somewhat different as well. Captor-E is slatted for 2015 right and it is planned to be shipped with T3B (whether it comes remains yet to be seen). But if T3B is delivered from 2015 with the Captor-E as default, these radars would certainly be production models. I’ll post something about the Typhoon’s AESA radar development path in the related Typhoon thread.
Scorpion82The Su-30MKI makes no sense for the RuAF. They already operate the Su-27SM, Su-30M2, Su-34 and Su-35S. Btw does anyone know about the state of the remaining 4 or so Su-30s?
Scorpion82Earlier brochures indicated a detection range up to 200 km against a 3 m² target, seems they can’t match that brochure claim? 130 km is also somewhat disappointing for an AESA radar, even for a downscaled Zhuk-MAE. It’s essentially the same range as for the MSA Zhuk-ME or PS-05/A to mention some prominent examples of that category.
It’s nonetheless a step forward.
The fact that the launch of the serial production is dependent on the outcome of the MMRCA competition make a purchase by the RuAF unlikely.
Scorpion82I think it is fair to wait until the full envelope is opened before we can really judge about the aircraft’s performance, though the dissatisfaction with some parameters is not a positive sign.
That apart are there any more information about the changes between Tejas MK1 & 2 spare the airframe & engines? Any news about weapons, cockpit, avionics and other systems?
Scorpion82@i.e.,
that’s of course true and just underlines the point even further.
Scorpion82robban and scorpion, the canard delta config was well known and a drawing of it was even provided to the press. what I said comes from the statements of program designers and leaders, they didn’t have any reason to lie that I know of.
Would it be possible to point out some sources for this?
moreover now that the FBW has definitely matured they could have gone for canards in Mk2 if they needed, that they didn’t speaks of their conviction in the original configuration.
Could also speak for the fact that changing the design and integrating canards properly into the FCS is still a major task not to be underestimated. They certainly have other priorities. As long as the aircraft meets its requirements they are just fine. Won’t change the obvious benefits of canards vs a tail and canardless raw delta winged design.
the sukhoi flanker dropped canards from MKI to su-35, kindly remember that too. 😉
As mentioned before this comparison is moot as the Su-27 was designed as a conventionally tailed aircraft. The canards were added as an afterthought and removed for the reasons stated, though they also compensate this with TVC.
at the end of the day you are free to form your personal opinions.
I know which I would rather believe.
Fair point and of course you know who you want to believe ;).
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