It’s funny that J-20 actually extends the drogue chute cylinder even on take off…
Given what just happened to T-50 not long ago, I believe that is a very necessary and good practice.
Please see reply in blue:)
Did they keep the wing area constant (I would assume yes) and the taper ratio constant during that study? (I would assume no?)
It is not comparing like with like – I am dubious about the wing area, not the shape of the wing itself.
The whole paper is talking about mid-sweep back angle configuration, so may be the taper ratio is kept constant rather than the wing area.
The angle of attack in that is nearly 35 degrees before appreciable differences between aspect ratio emerge.
Exactly, so you get very similar performance with a smaller aspect ratio wing in low AOA! and even better looking figures on higher AOAs. Plus the benefit at supersonic part, why not use it?
If you pull an AoA of 35 degrees for any length of time in a dogfight, your energy levels will be very low.
That paper is focussing on how best to make the LERX work. The F-22 and PAK-FA don’t rely on a mere LERX for lift in the 20-30 degree AoA*, they are much more sophisticated than that.
No the paper is not focusing on how best to make the LERX work, It analysed the main conflicts of modern fighter design and introduced a way of full fill those requirements with minimum compromise. The paper mainly focused on the Canard-LERX-Blended wing body configuration + relaxed longitudinal and directional stability as a good solution which covered most aspects of J-20’s configuration.
This is part of the abstract:)
Focused on the features of stealth , super maneuverability and supersonic cruise of the future fighter , the authors identified the main difficulties and gave some practical solutions to lift drag characteristics at
sub / transonic speed , high A. O. A. aerodynamic performances at low speed and supersonic drag characteristics.That is a very refined and interesting paper to read. Have a go if you have the time, help you understand the ideas behind J-20 much better. One thing I find is that he definitely DID NOT try to create a striker :p
The use of LERX to generate lift is high drag – while you can pull better AoAs, you destroy your energy levels in the process.
As With the three coupled vortex generation mechanism, a higher Cl can be achieved, so you don’t have to pull as big AOA as other aircrafts needed to achieve the same level of lift, thus drag might not be as big as we expected?
As the result the overall L/D might be even better?
A LERX is no substitute for a bigger wing. That J-20 wing looks around the same size as an EF-T wing, only the J-20 is a substantially bigger/heavier frame.
again, Song’s study showed that for this particular Canard+LERX+blended wing body configuration, majority of lift is generated on the body and inner part of the wing, so that a relatively smaller aspect ratio can actually do better 🙂
So I was thinking about what you said regarding camber and fuselage lift, but I don’t know if that exactly stands up to evaluation. Maybe I am misunderstanding the requisite geometry but it doesn’t seem like planes like the F-16 and F-14 have any obvious cambering beyond the nose and cockpit, but there are claims of significant lift generated from the fuselage?
according to Song’s paper, nose shapes used by modern stealth fighters can generate stable vortex which can be good for high AOA directional stability. However nose vortexes can also generate non-linear lift which causes non-linear pitch moment. Too strong nose vortexes can also interact with canard vortexes which could decrease the efficiency of it’s vortex lift.
Best photo/angle so far I think!
where does the Ka-50/52 place in your pecking order?
its probably worth throwing the WZ-10 and LCH in this.. both are closer to the Mangusta in size and probably role… both have too much exposed glass cockpits, especially with the LCH. But at least both are using single barrel guns which should reduce vibration.
too much exposed glass cockpits on this one? :confused:
Please do not start quoting wikipedia back to me. 🙂
The use of LERX to generate lift is high drag – while you can pull better AoAs, you destroy your energy levels in the process. The same with wing sweep; highly highly swept wings don’t perform so well in high speed turns.
The J-20 has a small wing… for a high performance fighter. It is spot on for an interceptor or interdictor. Compare it to, say, the F-15 or F-22, then compare it to the MiG-31.
Well Dr. Song’s paper explained it all:)
No access to wrecked stealth copter: China
(China Daily)09:19, August 17, 2011
BEIJING – The Chinese military on Tuesday refuted a report that Chinese intelligence officials were allowed by Pakistan to photograph the crashed US Blackhawk helicopter from the Osama bin Laden raid and take wreckage samples to research.
According to a press release sent to China Daily from the Information Affairs Bureau at the Ministry of National Defense, such reports are “groundless and ridiculous”.
The Financial Times reported on Sunday that Pakistan’s Inter-Service Intelligence gave China access to the previously unknown “stealth helicopter that crashed during the commando raid that killed Bin Laden in May, despite explicit requests from the Central Intelligence Agency not to do so.”
During the raid, one of two modified Blackhawk helicopters, believed to employ secret stealth capability, malfunctioned and crashed, forcing the commandos to abandon it.
The newspaper quoted a person “in intelligence circles” as saying that Pakistan, which enjoys a close relationship with China, allowed Chinese intelligence officials to take pictures of the crashed chopper as well as take samples of its special “skin” that allowed the US raid to evade Pakistani radar.
US Navy SEALs reportedly tried to destroy the helicopter after it crashed at Bin Laden’s compound on May 2, but the tail section of the aircraft remained largely intact.
“We had explicitly asked the Pakistanis in the immediate aftermath of the raid not to let anyone have access to the damaged remains of the helicopter,” the Financial Times quoted the source as saying.
In an incident such as the helicopter crash, it is standard US procedure to destroy sophisticated technology such as encrypted communications and navigation computers.
A senior Pakistani security official denied the report and pointed out that the wreckage had been handed back to US officials shortly after the raid.
“It’s just speculation. It’s all false. The wreckage was handed back. There is no helicopter left (in Pakistan),” the official told AFP.
The US officials cautioned that they did not have definitive proof that the Chinese visited the town of Abbottabad where Bin Laden was killed.
They also said Pakistani officials denied showing the advanced helicopter technology to any other foreign government.
Pakistani military spokesman Major General Athar Abbas also rejected the report in a statement late on Monday.
Abbas criticized foreign media for “launching a malicious campaign against Pakistan’s security organizations” and urged them to verify and cross-check information rather than relying on “unnamed officials”.
China Daily-Reuters-AFP
Some hot actions spotted today:D
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjk1MzI4ODQ4.html
another
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjk1MzM1MDIw.html
Any thoughts on weather the PLAN will develop catapults for their CVs?
Most definitely, the question is whether they would jump to EM stage directly
That may well be right. I still have serious doubts about the effectiveness of this anti-carrier missile however.
I personally think it’s main purpose is to prevent situation which requires it to be used from happening in the first place.:p
It is good to have people question its ability while others will think, hell what if it does the job? Are we really gonna approach their door steps and risk our carriers?
This is so similar to the function of nuclear weapons, big contribution to world peace:cool:
Forest Rule NO.1:D
When you have one carrier, you are definitely a threat.
When the number goes up to five groups, you’ll be lots of people’s best friend.
I am not querying the existence of the so-called carrier killing missile, but I am very sceptical that it can do what the Chinese claim. Have they got the ability to find and track a carrier in real time, launch a ballistic missile hundreds or thousands of miles away, continue to track the carrier, and relay the information to the missile as it re-enters the atmosphere, guiding on to a target which will have moved several miles during the time the missile has been in flight?
As far as I am aware, the USA and Russians developed ICBMS with a CEP measured in a few hundred feet, but that is firing from a static silo against another static target, with a thermonuclear weapon. The Chinese missile will, I presume, be conventional, and so will have to hit its target, a miss by half a mile won’t count. How many of these missiles will China make, because I can guarantee they won’t be cheap. I really don’t buy it, and as I said, I find it rather jarring that China is launching a carrier at the same time it is claiming to have an infallible anti-carrier weapon. The carrier I believe, the carrier killer I don’t.
This was where the rumor started…:cool:

Why on earth would they fit corn reflectors this way?
and where is this ship now?
Blitzo:
I’m not convinced. Can anyone else see the disconnect of announcing some sort of super carrier killing missile at the same time as launching your first carrier? If the anti-carrier ballistic missile is so feasible, the USA would surely develop one so as to take out China’s carrier, so why waste money on a seemingly obsolete weapon? My guess is that the carrier killer is mostly hype, the difficulties of finding and tracking a carrier in real time, and then guiding a ballistic missile on to it sound daunting to say the least, and are, I would wager, beyond China at this time.
Similar question, why would China develop ICBM when they got CNMD now:D