The livery doesn’t exactly jump out and grab you

Well if you stand under the blasted you thing you might find yourself grabbed by it as it lands round your shoulders!!

I believe it was Air France (i think – A340?) and when they lowered the gear upon approach to CDG a frozen body fell out onto somebodies conservatory and another fell shortly afterwards onto a car (i think but 100% sure of conservatory bit)

I think this was in 2005?

Perhaps also thinking of the SAA 747 that landed at JFK and a leg and torso fell into someone’s garden. When the wheel was lowered it severed the body and part of it fell out, I think other body parts were found along the approach too. The body was that of a stowaway who had climbed on in Senegal. The aircraft had to have minor repairs after some damage from the body.

That’s my point-if it is a private organization, then it has the right to employ selective membership.

I’m not sure about the job elements you’re talking about, or where you’ve brought these into the debate. With regards to private clubs, you are partly right, i.e. if it IS a private club then they should be able to choose who they let in, but in the clubs talked about at University by jbritchford, these are not private.

The National Union of Students has a strict non-discrimination policy, and Students Unions at a universities cannot be affiliated with the NUS unless it has certain associations, including an LGB (Lesbian/Gay/Bisexual associstaion) and and ISA (International Students association), although I’m not certain that they HAVE to have the latter even. Anyway, with regards to religious groups wanting to use union facilities and funding, they can only expect to do so when they subcribe to the NUS’s non-discriminatory policies, and therefore they stop being a private club because they have to be open to all. If they wish to remain private then they will need to consider meeting in another location, and not beneffiting from funding and support.

I equate it to the private club/public bar issue within the smoking debate.

Given the way the world works, a Christian group at university is relatively unlikely to attract non-Christians (whether gay or straight), but they may be likely to attract Gay Christians.

Well, they’ve come to some agreement, strikes are all off.

too intimidated to report sick under his new scheme and stay at home until they had recovered.

Well, if they hadn’t played the system and taken an average of 22 days leave per annum, then they wouldn’t have this problem. Ever heard of the boy that cried wolf? Even 12 days average across such a large number of people is alarming.

I suppose the pilots will enjoy an extra day off?

Apparently not, many planes still have to fly, especially LH types, in order that they’re in the right location when the strike finishes to resume schedules the best they can.

REN, I wasn’t aware that BA were proposing any pay cuts? Perhaps they want staff to work more hours, but on a salary that isn’t a pay cut, especially when you consider the points below (i.e. how inefficient the rate of pay is compared to days worked).

I’m going to apologise in advance, as I know two people on here that will be upset by my comments, they’re not aimed directly at anyone.

I saw some stats on the BBC news last night (hence not gospel, but maybe not a million miles away, they claimed it came from the airlines). Anyway they said that BA crew start on £22k (which is MUCH higher than I thought), whilst Ryanair are at £16k and easyjet somewhere between (I think about £20k). Although I think they have made a mistake, and these are infact top end rates(??) especially as the BBC news website talks about starting rates of £10k.

However, the stat that really suprised me, was the comparison between easyjet and BA on number of days worked each year…. BA 150 shift days/year, easyjet 220 (Ryanair no figure, probably 355!!;) ). So, on the basis that the average number of sick days a year is 12 per member of cabin crew (down from 22) then I’m not suprised BA are upset, this amounts to 8% of the working year lost for each member of staff (I wouldn’t mind an extra 8% of time off). I think the Easyjet figure was around 6 days (so just under 3%).

The general consensus in my office is that there is a growing dis-sympathy with the staff, they have it rather good for the current aviation world we live in, and that they are living in an era that finished 15 years ago. Do they realise how much harm they’re about to do??

I also wonder about propaganda fed from the unions to the staff, such as the view on here the other day that BA has been the most profitable airline in the world for the last 5 years, when actually it was really struggling not that long ago, where does this view come from, are the staff really so disengaged from the business, or is it a view fed to them from above?