That’s a very good point, FP, and one that I’ve been guilty of missing as I have a horse in the race, as it were, for Hendon to be right with their ID. Nonetheless, as an occasional archive hound myself, I’d still love to know what information they had that led them to their original conclusion. Nosy beggar, aren’t I?
Adrian
Well, the pigeon has come off a lot worse than the Hurricane – I don’t think there’s enough even for a data plate restoration!
I’m a little surprised (as an armchair pilot, I should point out, so I’m more than happy to be educated by those who can) that the pilot didn’t hear a bang, and call off the display given the size of the hole that pidge made – or maybe he knew it was a tough old bird*, and carried on? Anyone with an educated view on that one?
AG
*parse that as you will!
No doubt the reason it’s taken 70 years to shift is that someone was going to move it “dreckly”!
Adrian
Sorry Andy, didn’t mean to mis-credit the pic, posting in a hurry having just got back from a long and much needed holiday.:o
I am intrigued by the lack of identification. I can think of 101 reasons why they might not find definitive evidence of the aircraft’s ID, it’s the fact they seemed so sure which one it was before they raised it.
Adrian
(not many things make me want the cricket season to end, but once it does I’ll have time to get to Cosford to get my nose reamed out by the whiff!)
They certainly happened, though I don’t think to a major extent. Gosfield in Essex was actually bombed on the day of its official opening, which must have wound the yanks up a bit. I wonder whether the Kenley raid of August 1940 made the Luftwaffe reluctant to target airfields thus in future – though, of course, that was a special attack in itself.
I don’t think there were even that many intruder attacks on returning bombers once they crossed the coast, though at least some caused real chaos (there’s one such described in “The Last Blitz”) – possibly due to the state of our night defences later in the war?
Will be interesting to watch this thread…
Adrian
I recall hearing – and I don’t know how true this is – that Manchester’s Jewish population have always tended to side towards City rather than United. If that is so, it makes Trautmann’s adoption as a City hero all the more impressive.
I particularly like the story about meeting the Queen (and suspect that he avoided a rude remark from Prince Philip as having been a fellow serviceman)
Adrian
I recall hearing – and I don’t know how true this is – that Manchester’s Jewish population have always tended to side towards City rather than United. If that is so, it makes Trautmann’s adoption as a City hero all the more impressive.
I particularly like the story about meeting the Queen (and suspect that he avoided a rude remark from Prince Philip as having been a fellow serviceman)
Adrian
I hope that the RAF Museum are not as busy with the old “percussion adjuster” as the bloke in Ian’s photo is! Whatever did he think he was doing, I wonder?
Adrian
Thanks, TEEJ – didn’t expect it to be the Italians! I missed the Herc… but to be honest I wouldn’t have given it a second look as they’re quite common roundabouts.
Adrian
Isn’t the Barracuda – or at least substantial parts of it – a bog recovery?
I think I passed comment on the previous thread about the difficulties of finding the site so I’ll say nowt here – except that I can see you know full well what you are up against, and I wish you the very best of luck!
Adrian
Good point, Andy – you have far more knowledge of this than me. Both aluminium and magnesium will have largely white corrosion products (wonder what the blue flecks in “daz” are from?) and I don’t suppose they’ve tested it for composition. The expansion of oxide is astonishing – I once cracked open a lump of ferrous oxide at Whitstable to find an entire 20mm round, case and all, that had been entirely hidden in it (DO NOT try this at home, kids – I was young and dumb!), and “my” bomb actually threw up a cannon ball inside a six inch spheroid of the stuff…
Adrian
That’s impressive – though I wonder what the lump of aluminium oxide had been before it acted as a sacrificial anode for the (presumably ferrous?) cog?
Adrian
I ask would anyone want to keep and display a Taliban IED to show what sort of weapon blew someones loved one to pieces? Thats what I think of that Dornier and all axis aircraft!
Well, there are at least two IRA IEDs – a nail bomb and a pipe bomb – on display at Duxford, so someone must think so. However, as far as I know Duxford has no examples on display of the sort of devices my grandfather – trained with explosives in WW1, a gamekeeper so a classic Auxiliary Unit recruit, and by then in the Home Guard – was almost certainly building for the purpose of blowing, burning or generally breaking seven shades of it out of any Germans that showed their noses.
Adrian
Came across this interesting picture of a Do17 on wetlands on the Sussex coast, after a belly landing an what appears to be soft mud/sand. It would seem it has suffered a serious amount of damage and is in much worse condition then ‘our’ 17.
I believe this may indicate that the water landing of our aircraft is much more likely than the suggested Goodwin sand ‘then flipped over’ scenario suggested by others.
That’s the aircraft that came down at Seasalter on the north Kent coast early on August 13th 1940. It’s surprisingly well photographed, even filmed, and the fuselage was certainly still there circa 1950. I wonder whether it finally vanished after the 1953 storm surge?
It’s actually lying on mudflats several hundred yards below high water, and the front of the aircraft beyond the wings is smashed to blue blazes in photos from the other side (eg in Richard Collier’s “Eagle Day”). I think – only think – I recall that it crashed into the sea, and was exposed at low tide, as the mudflats at Seasalter go on for miles. Andy may well be able to confirm these details, I think he’s pretty familiar with it. In fact, it’s probably better to let him give chapter and verse rather than relying on my dodgy memory!
If I wander up the corridor, I’ll walk past two autoclaves made by BMM Weston -the company whose employees retrieved one engine in the early 1980s. Small world!
It is worth noting that the Seasalter Dornier appears to have been badly bent just behind the wings in a similar place to the Goodwins one, whether that’s instructive or not…
Adrian
My students have educational, behavioural and social difficulties;
I know you’ve already been thanked for taking students on tours, and I wholly concur, but as someone who went to just such a school, thank you for working with those who in my day were termed “maladjusted”. It can’t be easy, but some of us have derived huge benefits from people like you.
On the morning of November 20th 2007, we stopped in Trescault and walked down the old Argyll Road to Ribecourt-la-Tour*, a few hours over 90 years since my grandfather had done exactly the same journey in full kit behind the tanks as they crossed the “impregnable” Hindenburg Line. Perhaps the easiest action the 11th Essex ever saw, they lost just a handful of men – less than ten. Four months to the day later, they were not so lucky – caught in the teeth of the German spring offensive, they took 90% casualties and grandfather spent the rest of the war in POW camps.
Adrian
*all splelings approximate!