harryRIEDLIve seen Germany mentioned on the ship page on Wiki
harryRIEDLAdmiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier’s aircrew to fly Mig-29K training missions over Atlantic.
Sukhoi Su-33 and Mikoyan MiG-29K deck fighter jets will practice flights from aboard the heavy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov of the Northern Fleet during the warship’s patrolling mission in the Barents Sea and Atlantic Ocean, a spokesman for the fleet’s headquarters told Interfax-AVN.
“The Admiral Kuznetsov will set out to the Barents Sea and the Atlantic ocean in early October on a training mission, during which deck aircrews will perfect their skills after a training course at the NITKA air center in Crimea.
“The cruiser again has a combat efficient air crew, who now need to fly training missions in the Northern Fleet’s responsibility zone,” the spokesman said.
Earlier reports said that after docking and repairs, the cruiser returned to its home pier before setting out to sea.
Source: Interfax-AVN
DATELINE: SEVEROMORSK. Oct 1
I thought AK was in refit not training?
harryRIEDLWell it seems things are not as simple as the original information would like them to be…
The official French Navy website now reports that during repairs a more serious problem with the electrical system came up which will require the propulsion system to be shut down to fix…
Apparently the Marine Nationale thinks this will take weeks…
Not surprising considering the CdG reliability record but still…
Bloody hell it a rolling set of problems on CdG. Embarrassing MN not to be able to fulfill it role of Flag. At least this problem didn’t kill anyone. Shutting the propulsion system sounds serious.
could you link it?
harryRIEDLHNLMS Johan de Witt.
Thanks seems to fit well on the Davit
harryRIEDLRumour control says that the RN would like CB90s or derivative as replacement for P2000s and Scimitar class in the med.
can’t tell from that angle but the ship pictured looks like Ocean. It use their seems to be more like a super RIB and the desirability for its use was mentioned by this forum when sailors and marines from the T-22 in Iran were taken.
harryRIEDLI know wikipedia can be inaccurate but the only ice-break I could find in the Royal Norwegain Navy is this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NoCGV_Svalbard
Can that be correct that Norway would give up a nine year old ship which is their only ice-breaker?
Its more likely an ex merchant icebreaker rather than a military transfer like the other two Endurances which were merchant icebreakers
harryRIEDLThat construction video is a welcome ane rare sight, I wish the powers that be would realise that they are a good way of promoting British industry.
Really looking forward to seeing the first major superblock going to Rosyth.
saying that I was surprised to see that Shipbuilding was responsible in large part for the growth of Manufacturing in the last quarter
harryRIEDLOnly a small picture included, lower block two taking shape in Portsmouth.
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/8320118.Landmark_reached_in_construction_of_supercarriers/
LB02 isn’t that the central block which when completed all the other bits will bolt onto. (in the build video)
harryRIEDLNot really… For sure, it would be better capable to protect itself, but the fleet would still need Type 45 destroyers for a proper area defence, and CVF, besides, is not the only one asset the navy would need to protect: from amphibs to Fort class replenishers, there are ships which are incredibly precious and that the enemy would always try to destroy.
So much that the Fort class was actually designed to have its own VLS system with Seawolf missiles, even if these have never been fitted in the end.
The CVF, and ultimately possibly every ship in the fleet, in future will have the possibility to be armed in case of need with CAMM missiles, however: since CAMM needs no dedicate radar targeting and combat system and is “cold-launched” from sealed canisters, it can be fired from pretty much everywhere: the theory is that you can bolt the CAMM canister on the deck, acquire targets with the ship radar and fire the missile.
ASTER, like any other missile currently around, needs a far more complex VLS system, because there are many questions to manage, included the flames and exhaust of the rocket engine.CAMM is fired 100 feet into the air by compressed, “cold” gas and ignites its rocket only after: that’s why for the army the plan is to have palletized launchers with 12 canisters that can be mounted on pretty much any flatbed truck, cued for targeting by third-part radars. (the same used now by Rapier and the handful of more powerful Giraffe radars recently bought)
Apparently, you could fit CAMM canisters even on the flight deck of HMS Clyde, if you needed to.
For money reasons, however, it’ll be already more than good enough if we see 3xPhalanx and 3/4 30 mm guns on the CVF. It may very well be the hundredth case of “fitted for but not with”.
especially as as ARTISAN on the CVF will be the same as the T-26. although the best option in my opinion is perhaps replacing a Phalanx mount with a CAMM canister so you don’t sacrifice deck space for it
harryRIEDLcurious post relating to QE’s, according to Janes Coverteam are making a full sized EMCAT for the QE’s
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jni/jni100726_1_n.shtml
Converteam develops catapult launch system for UK carriers
By Tim Fish
26 July 2010
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The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) is investing in the development of an electromagnetic catapult system for the Royal Navy’s Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers in case procurement of the F-35B short take-off/vertical landing (STOVL) version of the Joint Strike Fighter is abandoned.
Power conversion specialist Converteam UK announced on 20 July that in 2009 it was awarded a GBP650,000 (USD1 million) follow-on contract to continue the design, development and demonstration of high-power electrical systems for its EMCAT (electro-magnetic catapult) system and that work on the contract was nearing completion.
The naval director at Converteam UK, Mark Dannatt, told Jane’s on 22 July that a small-scale EMCAT system had been completed in 2007 to prove the operation of modern linear motor, energy stores and control systems. Since then, extensive testing of the system has been successfully undertaken, as well as further work at the request of the MoD to enable Converteam UK to scale the system up to a full-size catapult suitable for the RN’s new aircraft carriers.
“The EMCAT is designed to fit in the space envelope that has been allowed within the aircraft carrier for a catapult. The intention of building and designing a small electromagnetic catapult and then developing the technology so that it could be scaled up was always a de-risking exercise in case the MoD did not choose the STOVL aircraft or it was considered necessary to launch other types of aircraft from these ships. The option would then exist to fit a catapult and operate conventional carrier-borne aircraft,” Dannatt said.
Could go CTOL in future
harryRIEDLChile has a decades old unflinching claim to a large slice of the Antarctic continent… Can such a ship be part of a ramp up of naval capability towards a future definitive aircraft-carrier capable force? Brazil boughttha ex-Foch on such a “temp-ship” premise…
Argentina amongst all of the sugested nations above at least has a clear and long standing military strategic requirement that might significantly benefit from its navy having a light carrier with fighters…:diablo:
I’m surprised that no one here even sugested Israel as a possible client! Imagine it soon heading to the Arabian Gulf for “humanitarian & oceanographic research support” :diablo::eek:
Also China, by being the worlds largest purchaser of old CV (HMAS Melbourne, Minsk) hulls, might certanly be interested in the “engine-less” Invincible hull to turn it into another “floating casino” like the ex-Variag! :p
And South Africa in some sorte of short term lease? Or else what about a Mediterranean Navy like the ones of Algeria or Libya? Could they be interested?
Coments?
Hammer
I would be sure that the UK wouldn’t be sell to Argentina. Would Chile have the manpower to operate carrier plus air wing considering the man power to run one invincible is most of the frigate fleet and that not including pulling a fair amount of people to train in the UK or other carrier nations to pick up the skills of deck management and harriers and all the other stuff.
Israeli doesn’t have the manpower and no desire to operate something of that size it would be a white elephant and very vulnerable and target for ever anti-ship missile in the middle east.:rolleyes:
I would rule out china as it would really have anything to learn from the original harrier carrier
But south African thats interesting as a while ago they were planning on a compation between a mini mistral and that nice MHD-150 desgin for an African humanitarian ship whether they could be convinced to buy an old harrier carrier and find away to man it.
Hopefully as the CVF’s get built we find out if anyone’s interested
harryRIEDLIt is a case of what the RN wants and what we can afford that will do the job even if only 90%. As for Exocat, the MM40 Block 3 is a totally different weapon to the old MM38 the RN used to use. It has greater range, far superior guidance and is designed to be very effective in littorial zones. It is equal if not better in some areas than the current version of Harpoon which the RN doesn’t actually have.
As for the 76mm, well I did mention a larger calibre if that was required but the 76 is a very good weapon and used in far more countries than the UK 4.5 and so is cheaper to operate etc. We are not talking shore bombardment here by the way but it can do the job at a greater range than the 4.5 with special ammunition and is on the whole a far more versatile system. Plus with 16-20 platfroms the 4.5 becomes the orphan when it comes to logistics and given the 76 would make a good gun for a C3/Corvette platform more so.
Regarding ASYER on land. I was syaing that a purchase of this system as used by the French would fill a gap in out AD capability and given its range and altitute envelope would cover much of what the Rapier currentlyu does allowing a much lighter VSHORAD system to be purchased to replace rapier, possibly based on an exisiting MANPADS.
It is all well and good to support the industrial base but it must produce equipment that provides the capability required at an affordable price. The MoD is going to be made to change its mindset regarding aquisition and bespoke solutions are going to become the exception not the norm unless industry and ther MoD develope programmes with a wider appeal than solely a bespoke UK one.
The Horizon would have met UK requirements but it was how the programme was run that scuppered things. In fact the Horizons in service are as capable as if not more so than the T-45 as they are fully fitted out unlike the Uks fitted for not with solution. FInally if we had stuck with Horizon we would probably have ended up with additional platforms and thewse would have been built in the UK just the same as the T-45.
that’s all very nice but I don’t see how ripping up a logistic system which has been around from 1972 (4.5 gun and system , the new one) and using a caliber which hasn’t been used for even longer and your expecting savings sorry I don’t see it at all. Yes in the various systems maybe better in some circumstances but your still trying to justify a more expensive system which would have unfortunate side effects such as a redsinge of the whole SSN plus MPA’s fleet to make them Exocet compatible (otherwise there’s no point) having to import ammo at a higher cost because that caliber isn’t made anymore in the UK.
You say by creating independent programs the MOD is wasting money but you want them to buy a system which they don’t want a land based large footprint VSHORAD system based on a bare minimum of 3 trucks replacing something that could be towed on landrover and was short ranged and simple to use. the MANPAD has been already dealt with thanks to STARSTREK in man and truck born forms, CAMM is the size up and should be able to be carried in a truck (an avenger system rather than a Patriot is the aim). See its cheaper this way.
The MOD is already do that look at team complex weapons programs, the various BAE UAV’s, even the QE class who’s design was bought by the French.
on the Horizon the RN Admiral running the program didn’t think it met the requirements to quote from the chief of staff at the time “it’s not common and it’s not a frigate!”. How would we have got more if the France and Italy found it too expensive they halved their order like the RN did with T-45. Its what you call fully fitted out because it radar is inferior its got a simpler more fuel inefficient drive system. Its also not the UK doctrine to fill up an AAW vessel with stuff not relating to defending HVT from air attack, T-42 only had hanger and TT RN 42 didn’t have Exocet launchers. Before you say Counties they were fitted after the T-42 were in service
harryRIEDLYeah, but if cheap and plentyfull, that could be an option (just vet the airframes and cannibalized the remainder as needed). And available via US foreign military aid (makes a big difference for some countries).
that reminds me has Thailand ever used its AV-8A which it got from spain as that’s an example of a Navy trying to use second hand harriers.
Possible but with the harrier poor safety record(which is hardly likely improve with cannibalized old airframes with a new user unfamiliarity with the aircraft’s quirks) their must be a large desire to get into the fixed wing aviation but with limited funds to be unable to afford any other options
harryRIEDLApology accepted, in this case at least.
About the AESA, I remember seeing at least one V22 concept that had a triangular radome over the fuselage, presumably a fixed phased array radar. Also given the larger size and capacity of the V22 it could accomodate something much bigger than Searchwater.
As for Lockheed’s plan,
From the above link.
The Lockmart AEW seems quite risky as im curious how are they going to deal with disruption to the picture by the rotors with a 360 AESA system
harryRIEDLAs stated most defence companies are or are part of Multinationals. Yes money has been spent on CAMM, but other proven systems are available off the shelf. BAe Systems is a major employer in the UK but it employs far more overseas where it is noe concentrating its business after years or few if any firm orders from the MoD and especially now it looks like the MoD is going to either bang out of or renegociate its support contracts. We should not tie ourselves to UK manufactured equipment just for the sake of national ego.
The DIS is going to become a joke after the SDR as the number of new programmes and theri size is going to shift downwards quite drastically. For too long the UKs defence industry has taken its eye off the global market. It does produce some very saleable equipment but this has been through the aquisition on other companies and even nor it is losing out to competetors even in the UK market, the ASCOD win in the recent CVR(T) replacement programme.
What is important is that the UK’s Armed Forces has the best kit affordable in sufficient quantities. If we are woried about support then negociate licenced production though this can reduce the benefits by increasing overheads. WHere there is no alternative then fine a UK produced bespoke solution may be appropriate, but first the capability requirement should be re-examined to see if it is too tightly defind.
Whilst in this topic I am advocating closer co-operation with Europe the US should also be involved. There will not be a problem with tech especially regarding stealth as BAe has a substantial knowedge base on the subject up a BAe Warton.
Returning to the FREMM. With its ASTER 15 AAW it will have commonality with the T-45 and if Co-operative engagement sytems are installed along with the longer lauch system could act as an additional magazine as well being able to fire the SCALP. The Exocet MM40 block three is a state of the art system and an advance on the RNs current Harpoon. Whilst the Italian and French vessels are fitted with a 76mm main gun their is no reason a larger system could be fitted if really required. In fact I would recomment purchasing two variant for the RN, an ASW variant and a GP variant fulfilling both C1 and C2 roles. The capability requirement would have to be amended but a fleet of 8-10 of each type would bring the RN back up to strength with an affordable, capable solution with commonality with other NATO navies.
Except that the FREMM isn’t what the RN wants, they don’t like the Hull or the use of a non UK system CMS. Aster is too big and unwieldy as as a Rapier system replacement and frankly a bit too heavy for the requirement. 76mm gun wouldn’t require a whole new logistic train with no communality with the rest of the Fleet. Exocet missile a shorter ranged smaller warhead than Harpoon and been out of the fleet since the early 90s. Its expensive and is unsuited to RN requirements otherwise it might have been used.
The RN learned through project Horizon that their requirements forced them to go alone no matter how hard they tried.
Do you believe that the RN should have gone for the French and Italian Horizons as they were co developed rather than develop the T-45. You don’t keep an industrial base if you don’t risk it to develop new kit (sometimes its very successful export sometimes not but at least they are being developed and built in the UK)
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