Well, in the old days when India main supplier was Russia I would agree. Yet, with orders for C-130’s, P-8I’s, and recently the delivery of Hawk Trainers for the UK. I really don’t see Russia getting to far playing hard ball with India. As a matter of fact the odds of Russia winning the MMRCA Contract have all but disappeared! Remember, just a couple of years ago everyone believe the Mig-35 would win hands down. Now that seems just a dream! I would agree that China would not likely want to order Mig-29K’s. Yet, as a stop gap she could live with them I’m sure. Further, rumor suggest that China is working on her own Naval Version of the J-10. Regardless, China Carrier ambitions are well known! Which, at the current pace would take decades to develope and construct. The ex-Gorshkov would be a quick stop-gap for either India or China. Also, if India continues to move the the West. Which, appears to be more likely by the day. What is Russia to do? Remember, India can go to the West! China and Russia cannot! Bascially, Russia and China only have each other…………..for better or worse! (i.e. Russia is not going to sell Flankers to Norway nor is China going to buy Rafales from France)

😮 if the inidans don’t get Gorskov they will be trouble they would have spent 1.8 Billion plus on Mig 29K which they can’t use for there original perpous and no ship [the Russians aren’t know for refunds ] with the ICA progressing slowly how long will Hermes be about. will it have be withdrawn while India waits for ingenious project 😮 🙁

can someone put this necroed thread to bed

Not that we’ll have any aircraft for them. 🙁 F-35B likely to be too late for the first carrier, & not enough GR9.

It seems there are all of a dozen Sea Harriers still in the possession of the MoD, some of which are taxiing around at RNSFDO.

we are getting the pre productions F35B in 2009 and the F35B should be arriving to the USMC in 2011 and the first commission carrier is 2014 so there should at least a OCU unit of F35B so not quite true that we will JSF less;)

good news that the contracts should be start propping up soon

1Saludo

i thought they might be looking at a through deck design

I’m getting confused, so lets see if I’ve got this “right”…

C-1 is going to be a T23 replacement, it will presumably provide fleet ASW, as well as any other role (e.g. land-attack).

C-2 is going to be more of a stand-alone asset with much more of a multi-role flavour than C-1, so perhaps a GP frigate? Presumably capable of operating with the fleet at need.

C-3 is going to be a patrol unit with the ability to provide civilian support, survey and MCM functions?

If this understanding is correct, then it sounds like C-1 could share a common hull with T45 and operate as a DDH (as Jonesy seems to be suggesting) OR share a common hull with C-2, built as an ASW-frigate type platform (and thus perhaps just a modified T23 hull). Either way, sounds like a common hull can be used to cover two of the three classes (T45/C1/C2).

I’m not convinced by the multirole nature of our future minewarfare fleet. Perhaps C-3 should be an MCM first with helicopter and accomodation facilities to give it some of the other roles? After all they’re already used in the patrol role – with the larger design (1,500-2,000 tonnes), it could gain the endurance and limited weapons/sensor fit for the long-term deployment.

or with the C3 you could go Jonesy option and make it big 4,000+ and stick a land attack cannon [155, or a 5 inch] and fit it with UUV’s and mine hunting helos and make it more patrol oreanting than mine warfare

1952 carrier. Engines ordered, steel was to come from scrapped WW2 escorts becouse of a general shortage.

any idea what engines it would have been fitted with would it be Parson boilers like the WW2 ships or something different

I would look very seriously at forward basing, which has a lot of potential – the ships would be forward deployed for, say, two years, and the crews would fly in and out for four-to-six month tours.

1) Standing Force Med – C-1s or C-2s
2) Fleet Ready Escort – Probably a mix of C-1s and C-2s
3) Atlantic Patrol North – Possibly just OPV(H)s or C-3s
4) Atlantic Patrol South – Possibly still just OPV(H)s or C-3s
5) Gulf/Indian Ocean – Probably a mix of C-1s and C-2s

8 C-1s – 2 each in the Med and Gulf, and 4 in Fleet Ready Escort role
8 C-2s – 2 each in the Med and Gulf, and 4 in Fleet Ready Escort role
8 C-3s – 2 each in Atlantic Patrol North and South, plus 4 for MCM as needed
4 OPV(H)s – 2 each in Atlantic Patrol North and South
plus 8 Type 45s to escort the two carriers

The aim with the mixes it to allow for each operational area to have a balanced mix of numbers and capability. There would be four ships based in each of: Med (Gibraltar), Gulf/Indian Ocean (Oman probably), Caribbean () and South Atlantic (Falklands); plus eight escorts and four MCMV C-3s based in the UK.

For the issue of the C-2 ship, it does seem clear that we are all thinking in terms of Type 23 replacement, so it does seem reasonable to opt for a high capability ship. Even just a ‘basic’ Type 45 derivative might not be too insane – Type 45 for AAW, C-1 for ASW and land attack, and C-2 for ASW and patrol. The C-3 can then be left to be a large patrol ship, built to be MCM capable.

One thing I would definitely add to all of the types would be UAVs, possibly just the ScanEagle, which is small enough to be a low impact installation. This would give all the ships a reasonable surveillance capability, and the bigger Insitu Integrator UAV would be even better, and possibly be able to carry a small radar, for remote targetting. Adding in UUVs for mine countermeasures would make a lot of sense, ideally carried (or embarked as needed) on all the ships. There would then be a specialist group of MCM experts, based in the UK, but operating small detachments onboard the various ships. They could even just fly out to the individual ships when needed, or be a specialist component of the ships crew – not having their skills dilluted by being just regular crew. Twenty or so personnel should be more than enough – UUV operators and handlers, sonar operators, clearance divers etc…

for middle east tasking’s may i suggest Cyprus being a reasonable place to base vessels as it is very close to Suez and would allow the basing of vessels very close to the major oil exporting nations

Indeed they do make big spending targets, BUT, they are as close to politically untouchable as any defence program the UK has had in 30 years.

Very smart move to have them built in the new PM’s backyard. He cancels them = puts his consituents on the dole = he can forget re-election!

they ordered the Long lead items:cool: so the CVF is a much much safer position than its predecessors