Finnish air force expertize?. what they know about TVC equiped supercruise fighter in combat as i doubt they have flown F-22. do you have any industry left ?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-06/finland-s-prospects-downgraded-at-moody-s-as-economy-shrinks

There are few pretty skilled engineers there. Industry is based on building F-18s….they also made the notorious frankenhornet. Very little new stealth designs of our own…practically none.

I think they are, if you reduce the number used, that leaves you more hours and spare parts to extend their frame lives
so if Finland can do with fewer jets, this way they can greatly extend the F-18s’ lives

today, yes. if the could get its software to work, its engine not to rip itself to parts, its stealth to work as promised

but by 2025 (when Finland might have an operational F-35 force), they will face off against upgraded Su-27 types, equiped with sensors and mission computers that could be 10 years younger than the F-35’s
as I’ve explained, they’ll be way cheaper, and just as powerfull or better
not to mention technology that doesn’t even exist yet, but will then. like pod-carried S-wave radars, that’ll be perfectly capable of detecting the F-35 at a decent range, despite its stealth. or pod carried lasers

either way, the F-35 has some major problems when facing Su-27 types
if it turns on its radar, it risks giving away its position. if it gets within optical/IR range, the Su’s have their own sensors that can spot the F-35
also, since the Su’s don’t have stealth, they can use their radar and jamming at full power
even if the F-35 does get within firing range without being detected and getting the first shot, they’ll give away their position as soon as they do
then the Su’s will have a good amount of time to fire back with missiles that outrange the AMRAAM, or shoot down any AMRAAMs with short ranged missiles (the IRIS-T can do this)
so if it’s a matter of trading missiles at maximum range, the F-35 will be an overpriced and limited (4, maybe 6 missiles) platform, and a fat target as soon as it turns and shows its non-stealthy, big IR rear end
and it’ll be duelling with Su’s that carry way more missiles, fuel, and have superior performance

this contrary to the F-22, which has the superb speed/performance, stealth and a2a maximised sensors to hit and run
although in the near future its AMRAAMs run the same risk of getting shot down before they can close in, and its stealth might be compromised

you don’t have to knock out the airbase with Scuds, you just need to keep those jets in their cover long enough for the cruise missiles and bombers to start their attack run
although any Finnish SAMs and radars would be a great and relatively easy target for Scuds too

really? here’s the Gripen’s capability

http://gripen4canada.blogspot.be/p/the-saab-gripen-ng-capable-and.html

I’ve never seen an add from LMT saying how you can maintain the F-35 in your garage. can it even take off from a landing strip that’s not check for small debris?

and the Gripen is maintained at Finland’s neighbour, Sweden, who I’m sure will be happy to help Finland build them themselves. plus you get a guaranteed, low cost purchase price and multi-year cost
meanwhile the F-35 went from $30 million to a $100+ million in less then two decades, it could have major flaws which will have to be corrected after many of the aircraft are already built, if/when there’s a problem it’ll have to be sent to the Netherlands, Italy or the US, and the USN (its second biggest operator) says it’ll be more expensive to maintain than the F-18
and if the F-22 is any indicator, it’s going to be a hangar queen

if Russia does go to war, Finland shouldn’t get the F-35, it should get the F-22, nukes and a whole lot of shelters

I don’t think they should, I think they should go with UCAVs instead
but if you insist on an advanced manned fighter by 2025 for Finland, an upgraded F-18 will be a great and cheap alternative to the F-35, or even the Gripen

too bad there are only 180 F-22s in the world, which have a history of hangar queens, and being grounded for chocking their pilots
and that as time goes by, Russia and China will develop ever better radars, optical sensors and anti-missile systems (like lasers) that will make the F-22’s tactic of going in at high speed and throwing out AMRAAMs at maximum range obsolete
not to mention the possibility of swarming the F-22 with cruise missiles and UAVs, a strategy which China seems to have developed. if the F-22 wants to trade AMRAAMs for unmanned Mig-15s, it already lost

except that those operations have been 95% of missions in the last two decades
and that if you’re facing off against peer air power, you’re probably in a nuke war and your base has already been destroyed

I wonder how much the aesa and other gizmos to run F-18 to 2035 would cost ?

I bet engines have to be changed…will there be any ?

Well, that’s debatable 🙂

At the moment it appears that USN/USMC are giving up legacy Hornet at about same timeframe as FAF. It does not make sense for FAF to remain the only end-user. Might be different if there was a major service life extension forthcoming for F-18C/D in US service.

Yes I know the Czar wanted to extent the border between Sweden and Russia to river Kalix but settled for Torneå.

Why do we need to be like the USN/USMC ? How about Switzerland and Canada. I know USA has used FA-18s in various wars…and those planes are older too.

USMC has used Hornet for 20 years longer than FAF; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F/A-18_Hornet

IMHO it is pretty stupid to change the planes this rapidly. New AESA into it and some clever “mechanic ****” like in the winter war times.

Below F-18 ( FSX ) over Finland and Sweden on the background.

64 new fighters would mean a extra 40 000 € dept for each productive work doing finn…at the time we are in recession….sounds fine to you ?

What does that even mean? Why do you need an AESA radar, high end EW system, HMDS, IRST, MAWS and sensor fusion in an aircraft employed for insipid border policing (and I’m referring to the Gripen E here)?

Much better to downsize the existing F-18 fleet, (which is already a huge overkill) and flog the ‘newest’ ones to 2040, without upgrades.They haven’t had to undergo the stresses of carrier ops (unlike the USMC’s units scheduled for retirement in 2030), so airframe life shouldn’t be an overwhelming concern.

I mean nobody knows the future.

It doesn’t make sense for Russia to stiffen-up its border with Finland. Didn’t they get the hint from the last war they had? What would Russia have to gain from a tense situation with Helsinki. Putin may be bold, but he is not stupid. He is going to leave the Finns alone. Back when Russia was in the Soviet Union, and was much more powerful, they didn’t mess around there. The Russians used to show off their latest military aircraft in Finland (1978, 1986). It was in Finland, the West got their first real glimpse of the MiG-29. Why would Russia opt to demonstrate and market theirs goods to a nation that they are ready to go war against? Why would the Russians make waves now, when their armed forces are at a low in capability? The majority of Russian AF aircraft are old an in poor shape from years of on-again, off-again maintenance and support. A few examples of some later types like the Su-30/34/35 does not equate to an overall enhanced force. If things keep up their pace, in ten years the Russian AF could pose a significant threat to its neighbors, but I’ll put my money on a Finn in an F-18 over a Russian in an Su-27.

I agree…if there is one country which has decent relationships with Russia it has gotta be Finland.

Reckless flying on the behalf of the russkies on the borders may cause a false warning from time to time.

Finland needs AF like any other country does to train pilots for changing future prospects and border patrolling.

Finland was not a member in USSR so there are no uncertain borderlines between these two nations.

I love this FSX F-35…just like the real one.

I’m no expert on these matters, but as I understand it. The CVR and FDR can help to tell what went wrong.
You often need evidence from the wreckage to tell why it went wrong.

I hope so.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/seville-airport-closed-after-military-transport-plane-crashes-near-cocacola-factory-10238272.html

RIP !

Birdmen; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNafDPikh6E

:applause: