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Cola1973

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Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 1,018 total)
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  • in reply to: F-35 news thread II #2400925
    Cola1973
    Participant

    You can’t be serious, Ww…reread your posting to which I’ve replied and now all of a sudden this?? LOL, ok…

    One thing, out of sheer curiosity.
    What was the missile that chased a plane (or any target), so you may have been “confused” with a guidance type and if so, can you point to a model (can be of any type, AA, AG,…)?
    Take your time…

    in reply to: F-35 news thread II #2400939
    Cola1973
    Participant

    Typically how long after launch does an aircraft have to detect an incoming missile and take avoiding action?

    That depends on intercept aspect (collateral speeds) and on MAWS type.
    Let’s say MAWS in question has a 5km detection range against a certain missile at certain aspect and with a missile’s average closure rate of M2 (medium/long distance abeam BVR shot), that’s about 8 seconds for a target plane to undertake defensive action (decoys, maneuver, etc.).

    the concept of Pro-Nav is that the missile isn’t wasting energy in getting to that intercept point, by matching every turn.

    You may want to reexamine what proportional guidance is.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_navigation
    If you want to learn more, follow the links on the bottom of the page.

    in reply to: F-35 news thread II #2401015
    Cola1973
    Participant

    Because this is what MAWS does. Detecting missile launch is the easiest way to detect the missile. Missile cruising without its engine running is just a tiny object very hard to detect.

    Look, IR MAWS (DAS f.e.) is a high res instrument, designed to detect inbound projectiles, which, in coupling with laser rangefinder, provides (or should, at least) enough time for a plane to mount an effective defense.
    The trouble with IR/laser combination is a cooldown time for laser, so I’m not sure how often is DAS able to sample the distance to the missile.
    Praetorian (radar MAWS) OTOH, is much better suited for the task, since it measures distance to the target permanently (potentially, with every pulse), enabling pinpoint accuracy, trajectory analysis and even maneuvering patterns to defeat the attack.

    True, IR MAWS can detect the launch easier than coasting missile, but ONLY AT SIMILAR DISTANCES.
    Most BVR launches are just that, BVR and B(IR)R and you can’t detect them with neither IR, nor radar MAWS.

    in reply to: F-35 news thread II #2401138
    Cola1973
    Participant

    The whole point of proportional navigation, is that the missile isn’t having to match every single move the fighter makes, and once the fighter starts pulling hard Gs and losing energy, it’s more vulnerable if the first maneuver didn’t work.

    The missile constantly flies towards the intercept point, wherever it is.
    That’s the point of proportional guidance. Dunno where do you get these concepts of yours?

    The -120D is a 180km class missile, which means that in a head on shot, it’s quite conceivable that it’s fired outside of the detection range of the MAWS/MLD. Obviously it won’t be fired at 180km, but it’s not going to be falling out of the sky in 10 seconds.

    If fired outside of the detection range of the MAWS/MLD, the target isn’t going to know that it needs to do a 180 degree turn, and change altitudes significantly. The whole point of this excercise is that stealthy aircraft are going to be able to set up optimal shots against anyone that’s not stealthy.
    It’s no surprise that a low altitude, low speed shot, at a receding target won’t have the same range as a high altitude, high speed shot against an approaching target. That’s why pilots are going to use the latter more often than the former, as their first choice of tactics.

    MAWS does not need to detect a missile launch…Dunno where did you get that idea?
    What MAWS does, is (as the name says) it warns the pilot of an inbound object, that has been detected using various means (IR, IIR, radar).
    IR MAWS needs a laser rangefinder to measure distance to the inbound object to plot a vector.
    Radar MAWS substitutes IR and laser for detection and tracking, with radar and works in mm wavelength to accurately measure inbound object’s distance.

    Obviously, the launch distance is irrelevant.

    in reply to: F-35 news thread II #2414337
    Cola1973
    Participant

    Those appear to be maneuver limit lines, not engine performance limits. My guess is 3G limit lines.

    Of course these are maneuver limit lines and the graphic says F22/F35, not F119/F135.
    But how did you come up with 3g??
    It’s a 1g sust. envelope (as commonly used when delineating plane’s envelope), or do you really think that F22 can sustain 3g at M1.75, at tropopause, in DRY power?

    (OTOH, why not? They say, Chuck Norris designed it. :D)

    in reply to: The forgotten F 16 #2419307
    Cola1973
    Participant

    An aerodynamic jewel.
    Maybe, it’ll be the necessity (funds), that will eventually drive it into production.
    In any case, one can’t go wrong with XL, be it at present configuration, or some possible upgrade (GE -132, radar, DAS, etc…).

    in reply to: F-35 news thread II #2375726
    Cola1973
    Participant

    It does imply that the interior volume of the F-35 is insufficient for integrating the NGJ within the airframe.

    I’d imagine the plane could well take a pair of jammers internally (like EF111), but the array layout and spacing for lateral and rear, level and dorsal, quarters my prove difficult to solve, since the plane is already packed with avionics, as it is.
    It’s a shame F35 is a twin tail design, because if it was given a a single vertical stabilizer, it could get the array “mast” on a vertical (like Rafale, f.e.).

    in reply to: Euro-fighter F-35 fight heats up! #2376529
    Cola1973
    Participant

    i was drawing attention to ‘your’ quoted pilot and what he said about dogfights, even with the old FCC
    the fa-18’s has better dogfight maneuverability, i have shown that the fa-18c has similar transonic speed
    now there are plenty of sources to the maneuverability of the fa-18c & SH including your very own pilot, it seems you want to pick and choose what is accurate in what he said
    i have said that the f-16 is better in supersonic up high

    Ok look, you made a claim about F18 being superior to F16 in several rather specific characteristics, which isn’t true and I’ve pointed that out and documented that.
    You didn’t and now you make more ridiculous claims like “the fa-18’s has better dogfight maneuverability“.
    Dunno why you do that, but it seems the military aviation is a D.Tracy/Top Gun type of issue for you, when it’s a very serious business in reality, in which ppl get killed.

    So, if you have something solid (actual figures, not empty talk) to add on F16-F18 comparison table, let’s have it, otherwise let’s just drop the subject.

    in reply to: Euro-fighter F-35 fight heats up! #2376616
    Cola1973
    Participant

    JJ, any fighter can be considered better then the other, by a particular pilot.
    Some guys even preferred P38 in WW2, once they go used to it, but I’m sure Hans Filip (a Fw190 ace) wouldn’t get nowhere near one, except in a firing pass.
    Nothing strange about that, but it doesn’t have anything to do with performance, which is a topic of our conversation.

    So again, F16 is superior to F18 in terms of performance and the remark about F18E, by the pilot in the link is being put as maybe, meaning the pilot thinks so, but can’t be sure about it.
    As we saw from that GAO document, F18E has considerably lower acceleration and turn rates, which means, it doesn’t actually perform better than F18C, but the other way around.

    What’s the point of your bolded quoting?

    in reply to: Euro-fighter F-35 fight heats up! #2376709
    Cola1973
    Participant

    JJ, if F16, starting from M0.9, reaches M1.75 in 2 minutes, as opposed to F18 which reaches just M1.62 by that time, while both flying similar engines, then it’s pretty clear which one has better transonic acc. even though it wasn’t given as a separate subject.
    Moreover, the pilot in the F16/F18 comparison clearly claimed that F16 reaches 500 kts, by the end of the same runway on which F18 raches 350 kts.
    So, F16 has superior subsonic and supersonic acceleration and yet you’re trying to make a case it somehow has better transonic acc.
    Are you serious??

    Here’s an unofficial figure on F16 acceleration, but since it isn’t official I’d imagine you’ll jump it isn’t true, right?
    It may not be exactly true, but is VERY close to one and compare that to F18’s.

    in reply to: Euro-fighter F-35 fight heats up! #2376727
    Cola1973
    Participant

    your dassault statistic link said
    Combat Maneuverability Instantaneous turn rate @ 15,000 ft. (4,572m) – Two IR Missiles – 50% Int. Fuel
    Mach 0.7 °/sec
    f-16c 18
    f-a18c 18.5
    (dassault may have it wrong °/sec or g , as per my following picture)

    (Personal insult removed by moderator.)
    Let me help you, it says INSTANTANEOUS TURN RATE (expressed in °/sec), which is something completely different than g load (expressed in Earth’s gravities = 9.81 m/s^2) and although I can imagine you can’t tell the difference, it doesn’t mean there’s none.

    your dassault link didnt measure transonic acceleration, 1.6-7 is supersonic

    Actually, the transonic portion is included there.

    your second link gave the transonic acceleration of the fa18c
    the F/A-18C accelerates from 0.8 Mach to 1.2 Mach in 34.6 seconds, but didnt give the f-16
    that is why i asked for a link to the f-16 transonic acceleration

    When you find official data on F16, feel free to post it.
    However, even a casual observer, can easily understand advantage the F16 has over F18, so you’re either not interested in factual matter of things, or that’s simply beyond you.
    Frankly, I don’t care which is it, just stop countering facts for the sake of countering, alone…that’s all.

    also can you give the sustained for the f-16 ?
    At sea level, the F/A-18C’s sustained turn rate is 19.2 degrees per second,
    At 15,000 feet, the F/A-18C’s sustained turn rate is 12.3 degrees per second,

    Well, Google is your friend, although I can save you a lot of trouble and just say F16 has significantly higher STR then F18, due numerous design reasons.

    As for this graph, there’s somewhat extended discussion about it in this thread, so if you don’t have any significant parameters to add, just drop the subject.

    in reply to: Euro-fighter F-35 fight heats up! #2376843
    Cola1973
    Participant

    JJ, again…

    1) F18C DOESN’T have better transonic acc. than F16, as per link.

    2) F18C or F16C, DON’T have higher instantaneous g load limit then each other, but both have the same – 9, as per link.

    What are you talking about??

    if you could post your links showing the f-16 has better transonic acceleration, i would appreciate it
    • At 5,000 feet at maximum thrust, the F/A-18C accelerates from 0.8 Mach to 1.08 Mach7 in 21 seconds,
    • At 20,000 feet at maximum thrust, the F/A-18C accelerates from 0.8 Mach to 1.2 Mach in 34.6 seconds,
    • At 35,000 feet at maximum thrust, the F/A-18C accelerates from 0.8 Mach to 1.2 Mach in 55.80 seconds,

    You obviously missed the point of this link.
    It’s here to provide cross reference with another link, that contains F16’s and F18’s comparative accelerations, in case there’s a doubt in validity of claims.

    in reply to: Euro-fighter F-35 fight heats up! #2376881
    Cola1973
    Participant

    the fa18c has better transonic acceleration and sustained g than the f-16

    No, it doesn’t.

    the fa18c post 2004 has a much superior maneuverability envelope

    No, it doesn’t.

    the f16 has better instantaneous g than the fa18

    No, it doesn’t.

    Comparative data on fighters in question and you may even cross reference them with this document (page 32), to verify the data.
    All of this corroborates with what that pilot said in the review, I’ve posted earlier.

    in reply to: Euro-fighter F-35 fight heats up! #2377098
    Cola1973
    Participant

    JJ, FCS doesn’t alter performance (well, it does if the original was downloaded from Inet) but handling, whether those are measured in climb, level flight, dive, or in turn…doesn’t matter.
    I was talking about performance issues, since some guys managed to conclude (in their infinite wisdom) that F16 and F18 have “practically” the same performance.

    in reply to: Euro-fighter F-35 fight heats up! #2377110
    Cola1973
    Participant

    it is pointless judging the fa-18 with the old FCS, pre 2003/4

    Why?
    Is it because the V2 FCS gave F18 more lift? better T/W ratio? Less drag?
    The answer is neither and the pilot in the text compared performances, which remained unaltered, so his observations stand.

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 1,018 total)