@Corran
You made a statement about Britain’s inability to afford something, that’s more than just a specific project. Once you mentioned Britain, and not just CVF, you broadened your statement from the project alone, to the state of Britain’s finances. The statement was “Queen Elizabeth class carriers are more than UK can swallow“. As for throwing insults, I believe you have just thrown the first, by calling me something derogatory, namely “small minded“. You say it is off topic, yet you brought the topic up.
I provided the same amount of proof for my statement about Poland’s finances as you did for your initial statement about Britain’s finances… that was the point π
Actually buying two carriers is reasonable, and two smaller carriers are more reasonable then one bigger.
Steel is quite cheap. The tonnage is not really the issue with the carrier, which is why they were enlarged from the 40k ton design.
@Corran
I am surprised you are objecting to my statements on Poland, since from your statements above one would have to assume that you like the idea of discussing the finances of other countries. I take from your most recent comment then that actually you prefer for you to make negative statements about Britain, but you want us to remain silent on anything which might show Poland in a negative light, such as aid to Poland? π I really don’t think the Polish are in a position to look down their noses at Britain π
There is a third alternative! Stop giving money to Poland to rebuild their public services, demand they repay any money we have given to them through the European Union, refuse to pay for any Polish people living in state housing or on benefits in the UK (send the bill to Poland) and then spend all the accumulated and saved money on some airplanes for our carriers π
There is also the possibility for buddy refueling to take some of the strain from the tankers, since only a small part of the air force will actually be in the strike packages.
@eagle
I can’t see them modifying the F15I to carry more than one munition, any spare capacity would be best used for fuel. If they want to hit a target harder it would be more effective to stagger the strikes into two closely separated waves.
How could they stage something close to a aerial campaign other than a couple of missions, if they have to cross Jordanian and/or irakian, lebanese, syrian, saudi, turkish airspace to get to Iran?!?
AbraΓ§os
Two simultaneous missions could take out two targets, this would stall Iran’s programme for a very long period. Several of such missions could effectively wipe out the programme, though everyone has their own opinion on how much needs to be destroyed to reach each threshold!
@PLA-MKII
Thats true, but I think taking over an airfield would be a step too far, and probably unnecessary. They may overfly Iraq, but I don’t expect anything more than that.
@19K11
They do!
Would the air refuellers be able to stay out of Iranian SAM range? Or would a quite significant SEAD effort be required?
If the Israelis lost the tankers, they’d lose the lot.
The tankers don’t need to go very near Iran. The problem is the tankers need to wait, perhaps over Saudi, which makes turning a blind eye rather harder for them. The Israelis don’t have the numbers to start attacking air defences except in “self-defence” of the strike package(s).
Even without the tankers they could still divert to one of the Arab countries. It would be a big issue, but they’d probably get the planes/pilots back.
Indeed it is strange how that works. I shoot here in the UK and I noticed a video posted by an American about among other things British gun controls. By in large they were wrong and I posted some corrections in the comment section. What surprised me was the number of comments from British people who didn’t know how the law around shooting works in the UK. For example pistols were not banned in 1997 they were restricted beyond the means of the normal public to have a good reason to own them. You can have Black powder, cartridge for humane dispatch and historic cartridge (section 7.3 for research and testing – something the anti gun lobby haven’t noticed) if you can prove good reason.
That really is just nit picking. The pistol ban was publicly discussed as “the handgun ban”, and effectively was just that. It’s more than just a “good reason”. Pistol target shooting is a “good reason”, (good enough for a rifle licence!), yet those who had pistols for that purpose had them taken away. Actually the only other group that got to keep them were armed robbers and drug dealers. People cannot be expected to know every small aspect of every law!
Leaving the political issues aside, the biggest challenge here is the logistics IMO. It’s all well and good having F16I/F15I, but air refuelers are likely to be the real stumbling block. It will be interesting to see if other “interested parties” offer some invisible refueling support to the Israeli strikers… I don’t think Iranian air defences are too big an issue unless they are able to keep a vast force on alert which I doubt they would be able to do. They may even get some kills, but I’m sure Israel is perfectly happy to take some losses to achieve the objective!
The AMCA is not the PAKFA derivative.
I was refering to FGFA π
All unmanned!
4.5th Gen ~ As per Typhoon, Rafale ect
5th Gen ~ Products from Lockheed (F35, F22, Transformer, C5 etc)
6th Gen ~ Unmanned strike
7th Gen ~ Unmanned fighter
The Indian one doesn’t really count as it’s essentially the PAKFA…
Could they do a updated Typhoon with extra stealth feature similar to the silent eagle?
Typhoon is as stealthy as is feasible. Be better off designing a new stealthy airframe but with Typhoon’s internals. Why don’t they do this? The current Typhoon is plenty capable, and there isn’t a need for anything else and which anyone is willing to pay for. If there were a new airframe, higher prioirities on my list would be things like longer airframe life so we can invest more into it and wait longer to replace it!
So the T-50 is a Flanker derivative with a new fuselage incorporating weapon bays, different inlets, a different front end with chines, entirely different wing planform, and two completely new control effectors?
I think I will stay deluded. It makes more sense.
Yes, it’s very different, but still similar enough to be considered part of the Flanker family.
No, it isn’t.
Yes, it is a derivative. I’d also just point out that almost your entire post was based on looks, especially funny when you consider you describe such comparisons based on appearance only as “armchair” analysis methods!
But I agree, there’s no need to go offtopic any further.
Get this into your mindsets:- the ADF will NOT buy Japanese. Japan wont ecport its military technology. We can buy/creatre better anyway.
To compare Fukuishima, a tragedy caused buy a horrific natural disaster, and operation of a nuclear submarine is ridiculous.
On your first point I think you are incorrect, as has been shown by some members above, Japan may actually be willing to export them, or do some kind of joint programme.
As for Fukushima, nobody is saying that the safety of one is related to the safety another. What is being said is that nuclear has now got a worse public image in Aus, whether it is justified or not is irrelevant, and that conventional submarines would face far less opposition, and so are the most likely to be chosen.
“Clueless” and “dumb” are compliments coming from the guy who thinks that the T-50 is an adaptation of the Flanker.
The T-50 is similar enough to the Flankers to be considered a derivative. It’s not like the difference between F16 and F35 for example.