pppThe reason is that with an IRST you have to search the whole sky for targets, whereas with a radar the targets are identifying themselves to you (by reflecting the radar). The sky is a big place, the targets are quite hard to find particularly at a distance, and so thats a lot of searching! IRSTs are good for targeting, even at long range, but its better to use them in combination with something that gives them a rough area to search, such as an ECM system. As to weather, IRSTs can see through rain.
pppNO.
If they were going to buy an MPA, they would buy the Nimrods.
But they aren’t!
pppOut of those 108, only 72 would be oerational at any moment, having 36 as rotational reserves.
The Rafales might be posible, yet their adquisition price and very low ToT is a big negative.
For most (almost all) missions, a twin engine fighter might be overkill, so a lighter plane is desired.We got that covered with the Pampa II F3s. The FAA (Argentine Air Force) calls for 2 Fighter Brigades (36 jets each). Support aircraft, like LIFT Pampas, or COIN Pucaras are in different Brigades.
Whatever way you look at it, 108 Rafale is going to be too expensive. The French govt are talking of only getting 180, so the idea of Argentina, which currently “flies” some small numbers of ancient Mirage versions and some A4s is stretching it IMO. Sure, there could be some massive military buildup, but it seems to be going the other direction.
Interesting ideas. Political gains aside, is there anything (esp. technical) RR or Snecma could learn from each other? Mass manufacturing process for Snecma maybe, since RR is a much bigger manufacturer? I don’t see any aera where Snecma could outshine RR, to be honest. (But I’m no specialist.)
I doubt RR would be willing to share anything that gives them an edge in the commerical market.
pppAnother issues is what will the marines do with there new ships with no well decks? Are we talking about getting rid of JUST the F-35B, or getting rid of all marine organic TACAIR? I bet the marines will tie both together.
I don’t think anyone would suggest an LHA without helicopters, that would be like having an aircraft carrier without aircraft or an aircraft carrier that spends its life sailing in a dockyard 😉
pppI love how when its mentioned that Typhoon could use its PIRATE to identify an F22 at 100km+ (depending on whose figures you go with), its attacked as impossible because its an IRST system, yet the suggestion of F35 providing 360* threat identification using an IRST near instantaneously it is perfectly realistic. ROFL!
Ahh the internet, where we can divide by zero and elephants are larger than the moon!
I think that it is a bit surrealistic to envisage a tuype of warfare whereby all assets, except those in on the first centimeter of the front-line can be kept for 100% outside the reach of the enemy.
Thats the problem with a plane so precious nobody wants to lose one, nobody ever makes full use of one. This applies to all of the future aircraft really (F35, Typhoon, F22, Rafale, F18SH).
The Italians still want F-35Bs i wonder what they will do its its canceled
The navy’s 5th Helicopter Group is also in training at Luni air station before receiving its first four NH Industries NH90 anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare helicopters in the first quarter of 2011.
Preparations are also being made at Grottaglie air station for future operations with Lockheed Martin’s F-35B. The navy should receive 22 of the short take-off and vertical landing aircraft between 2014 and 2021, with its Cavour aircraft carrier set to be modified for the type by 2016.
Nobody said they can’t have some F35Bs produced, just that those F35Bs will be rather expensive with a order book of a couple tens of unts.
I guess it depends upon the condition of their Harriers. The AV-8B’s that the Marines own have a substantial life left after their latest makeover. If the British retire their Harriers, perhaps the Italians could purchase them. The Spanish Navy is in the same boat, but they haven’t ordered F-35B’s as of yet. Both the Italians and the Spanish could refit their carriers to be helicopter carriers, or retire them altogether.
The Italian ship Cavour only recently just entered service!
pppI was thinking more of a non-AB version too, it might not be perfect, but it’d probably get the job done good enough 🙂
It’ll most likely be a new engine though, lobbyists and all that.
pppThanks Buitreaux – given that ToT is key part of modern fighter jet deal surely it is possible that Brazil and Argentina could work to together on a locally designed and built single engine light fighter jet, with either Swedish or French consultancy, and I guess foreign engines (I consider the Rafale the better choice here if Dassault is willing, as you could build a single engined light fighter around the Snecma M88 engine and French avionics with less risk of complications with the USA that if you went with the GE engine)?
Also has Argentina considered the JF-17 with French avionics, at risk of controversy but I do not think it can be considered quite as capable as the Gripen or the Rafale but it would be cheap enough to purchase if Argentina was considering a Hi/Lo force mix of 12 – 24 Rafales and a second fighter.
Apologies for de-railing the thread and to anyone who takes objection to my personal opinion on the relative merits of the JF-17, Gripen and the Rafale.
Is there a need in Argentina for that mix though? One multirole type would be fine, I don’t see any need for a hi/lo mix of fast jets. If the lo end were composed of Pucara style aircraft, then that could be an option.
pppA Typhoon engine would easily do the job, as would a Tornado engine. Not much development work in that though…
pppIt won’t prove anything.
Actually it will prove which members on forums are stupid enough to believe it proves something.
Norway (~50?), Denmark (~50?), Netherlands (80+?), Turkey (100+?) and probably some others I have missed.
Please link me to the contract signings where these planes were ordered. I seem to have missed Norway ordering 50, Denmark ordering 50, Turkey being unsure of how many they paid for but think it was 100 and the other customers when you remember. I’m sure this will be very interesting news to us all.
the SDSR has the stated aim of increasing UK Typhoon numbers and Air to Ground capabilities by 2018 now officially.
as quoted on Ares:
“The report also notes that by March 2018, the U.K. plans to have completed its effort to “accelerate Typhoon force growth and increase multi-role capability.” “
To my mind that seems long enough to get AESA with full A2G and electronic attack modes, Stormshadow, Brimstone and Meteor. But is it likely to include conformal tanks to allow more weapons or range? That seems like an increase to me…
are there any more scraps of flesh to put on the bones yet i wonder?
An increase in numbers to what? 180? 232?
Indeed, Southern QRA probably spend more time dealing with terror alerts than Bears.
I think by the Bears he means QRA taskings of all types, be it a TU-95, airliner, alien invasion or other common occurrence.
pppCan you repeat that plz?
F35 offers nothing particularly different in terms of target aquisition.
With modern SAR ground-mapping AESA radars, targeting pods, and GPS guided (SDB I / JDAM) or target seeking (SDB II) munitions you can hit multiple targets in one pass much easier than you could with laser guided bombs.
The F-16 can hit multiple targets in one pass as well but its sensors won’t match up to the F-35’s and it will have to stay further away from any anti-air defenses.
Its been two decades since sadam invaded Kuwait; air combat has evolved.
It depends what you regard as one target. 3 tanks 50 feet apart is pretty much one target and can be engaged in one pass. Two bunkers 100nm apart is two targets and it would be better to stick the two bombs on the one target.
As for distance required from SAMs that really depends on the air defence threat, and the one you seem to be thinking of seems to be one wheren the enemy has tailored it to be an easy target for the F35s strengths. In reality though, an enemy is going to adjust its use of air defence, and its equipment composition in response to its enemies capabilities.
From batteries?
And/or an air duct.
pppGoing to have to agree here, two bombs on an F35 translates to a single target with two bombs rather than two targets with one bomb each. Its much better that way as coming back to the target again is much less preferable to having to use two sorties to go to two targets.
Sure the F35 is a much better plane than the F16, but that doesn’t translate to hitting twice as many targets. That said, the F35 is an excellent USAF workhorse.
pppPerhaps they should consider investing in a hospital ship for international operations.
pppNot sure if UAV’s are the best thing for COIN, dont forget insurgents in Afghanistan and possibly Iraq, and the NWF have been using a readily available piece of software to hack into the UAV video feed and possibly even put them off course.
UAV’s have killed a lot of people in the region but none of us can be sure that those deaths are combatents or civil by standers.
Have to agree with djcross, do need people in COIN and again I have to wonder if part of COIN is not to kill or mame but to stop people perform certain activities allowing the idealogical war to be faught.
Whoa there, they aren’t “hacking” anything. If they can see the footage thats because its being sent over an unsecured video link. Even using an obsolete encryption method like DES would be impossible for them to crack.
pppThe former has chosen the Pantsir-S1 and the latter, the SPYDER for land-based SHORADS. If you’re arguing for inter-services commonality as a selling point, it’s unlikely that most export customers will be looking to replace systems for all three services at the same time, like the UK is with ASRAAM/CAMM.
It was claimed the ASRAAM was “only” having one export order which is incorrect.
If you’re arguing that ASRAAM is a poor missile that can’t get export orders, you are wrong. Given the existing success of ASRAAM, its entirely plausable CAAM will be a successful export too, and will export many more units than our import of MICA-VL would achieve for us.
Looks like CAAM is the best choice all round 😀
pppCAMM is said to be based on ASRAAM, a missile developed in the UK for the RAF at a cost of hundreds of millions of pounds, that has won only one export order to date (Australia).
and UAE
and India
Sign In
