MrB.175not far off it! All I will say for now is there will be ALOT of movements of the BA collection in the next couple of months, good and bad!!
Dave
In the old memory banks I’m sure I recall the BA Collection name being dropped due to the lack of interest by BA?
In addition, what consistutes the collection? For my money it’s the Trident, BAC 1-11, VC-10, Britannia, Comet, Viscount, and 707 (York?).
Out of all of these there are no VC-10’s, Brit’s, 707’s or short Comet’s under cover in the UK so I hope these are no at risk? I did hear that the Viscount and Comet were really suffering from the tin worm – to the extent that they’d collapse it they were moved?
MrB.175MrB.175 – I think I would be thinking in terms of keeping her airworthy to allow for a single flight undercarriage down flight to somewhere like Filton.
David
Unfortunately we’re too far down the line for that now. This will be the 9th year she’s spent outside at Kemble and the years have taken their toll. It will be an amazing acheivement if she ever gets to ground running condition.
Although the team have looked at it before, the issue of no income, lack of manpower and no spares means she would probably require the best part of a major lottery win in order to make a one off flight, and I very much doubt the CAA would allow even that. Nope, with Kemble so close to Lyneham and Brize I guess it’s now her home forever so we need to work on making some protection for her. After all, there’s a nice long runway not far from where she’s currently parked and as far as I’m aware, now the Vanguard’s been moved at Weybridge, XM496 will be the only historic large 4 engined turboprop British built airliner cable of moving under her own power!
Don’t forget the Bristol Aero Collection did have access to a Brit (dismantled G-ANCF) which should along with the rest of the BAC have moved to Filton. However, just recently the BAC have parted company with G-ANCF’s owner and the Filton museum for my money is still just a pipe dream. As ever, the seniors involved would rather see yet another Concorde under cover (yawn!) rather that the historic items the BAC have (had!) move to Filton.
I did say I’d get off my soap box didn’t I…
MrB.175The cynical amongst us will find it a little depressing to see two F-111’s undercover in the U.K when there are still gaps in the national collections that need addressing.
Exactly! How long will it take before someone decides the a Britannia is a worthy enough historic airframe to put under cover! In fact that goes for a VC-10 also and Cosford (like Duxford) has one of both outside.
There always seems to be a lack of direction when it comes to looking to the future as we all know airframes cannot survive on a C&M basis for a long time outside. Hopefully at least with the move round Cosford will get the Argosy and Andover under cover as this will be a first. Newark were first to get a Varsity under cover last year. I feel the preservation movement really does need to work on getting one of each historical airframe under cover.
Help with XM496 at Kemble please in this respect as she’s the only RAF Brit left and is cable (with a lot of work now – because she’s been outside for a number fo years with only a small team to look after her) of running engines and in the long term taxying once again. Any genreous benefactors out there like to donate a Brit size hanger and move it to Kemble???
Sorry, get off the ‘ole soap box now!
Keep the info from Cosford coming Dave.
MrB.175The cargo door area in the Brize dump photo does not look quite right to me. I would have expected to see more metal around the inside edges, locking latches, etc. In the photo, this area is very flat, almost as if it had been boarded up to disguise a cut
I agree Laurie, something not quite right – looks too smooth.
MrB.175Still needs more sleuthing
Indeed and I don’t think we’ll really know until an ‘insider’ from Brize comes along. I’ve written to Brize PR dept to see if they can offer any more, as I’m sure the base photographers must have taken some shots of it when in use.
Your investagative work is excellent and I think so far this could be the likely solution – that it’s one of the test 250/300 fuselages converted. I must admit that counting the windows down the side in relation to the cockpit, cargo aperture, emergency exits and rear door certainly make it look like a 250/300 series.
I guess it’s the perspective but initially I thought the photo made it look more like a 100 series – I suppose this is because the tail section is missing.
However, one thing, for me the nose contour from the cockpit windows to the radar bulkhead still looks too steep?
Any chance you can scan a photo of the fuselage from the CW book so I can see how similar it is?
This is getting more and more interesting! I’m sure someone else out there must have shot it on the dump in colour which would help – any offers anyone???
MrB.175I guess the clincher would be in Filton Flyer could confirm if RX still has a cargo hatch or the evidence of one cut into her.
Perhaps we need to get the time team on this one!!!
I’ve looked closely at the port side of RX myself and there is no sign whatsoever of her ever having a large hole cut into the side of her. Although just the nose section survives, enough fuselage exists behind the cockpit that matchs the Brize dump example in terms of where the large aperture would have been.
Incedently, after talking to David Berry on this subject (famed RAF Brit pilot and author of the Whispering Giant in Uniform) David believes that RX became a nose only section before its arrival at Brize or even Lyneham. So it’s possible I guess that both the remains of RX and BO were once at Brize?
The hunt for the truth continues!!!
MrB.175Its definitely the second prototype G-ALRX, although there is quite a bit more fuselage than there was during its Boscombe Down days. Here is a photo of it during its days at the Filton Training School
Hi Andy
See my note back to Simon (HP81) above. How can you be so sure it’s G-ALRX? Although it’s possible changes were made, if you compare the photo of the fuselage on the Brize dump to that of the one taken in the Bristol training school, the small oval window ahead of the main cabin windows looks to be in a diiferent place. As I don’t have most of my Brit archives with me here I can’t compare photos of ‘BO against ‘RX to see if there were differences in this area.
In addition to this the Brize dump fuselage shows 2 cabin windows between the second emregency exit and the rear door. Again, changes could have taken place but as far as I’m aware both G-ALBO & G-ALRX and all other 100 series Britannia’s only had 1 cabin window between the second emergency exit and the rear door…
I guess what we really need is for someone to reply that was at Brize (hopefully serving on the AMS) around period 1966-1980 and can confirm the identity. I’m also hoping there’s someone out there with some good quality photos…the debate goes on!
MrB.175I would say that the picture is almost certainly of Britannia G-ALRX. The second prototype, that crashed landed in the river Severn.
This aircraft had round emergency exits & no eyebrow windows in the cockpit
Simon
All we can say is that this is a possibility as all Britannia’s carried round emergency exits. In addition it could have been G-ALBO (the first prototype) which also had no cockpit eyebrow windows – I think it’s more likely to be G-ALBO rather than G-ALRX given the RAF used it at St.Athan. It was even allocated the maintenance serial 7708M.
MrB.175If i get the chance, i’ll pop up and have a chat with mate of mine, who is full time staff at the museum. get some updates. Hopefully see the F111 painted to!
Keep up the good work Dave! I’ve got my fingers crossed that it’ll be outside for a few months yet as I will not be in the UK until June at the earliest…
MrB.175Looks more like a Viscount nose profile to me than a Brit
Agreed but then the cabin windows look too small for a Viscount and the cockpit windows still aren’t right – the mystery continues!!!
MrB.175Could it be a civilian Brittania that has been painted in RAF colours?
Pretty sure it isn’t, I’ve accounted for all those – unless of course it is the fuselage from the scrapped G-ALBO. This was a 100 series Britannia which had a shorter front fuselage than the later 200/300’s and from the photo it doesn’t look to have the length of a 200/300 series.
No closer yet!!!
MrB.175If it were a mockup would they bother of the wing centre section?
Good point! However, from the photo there’s something about the nose contour that doesn’t look quite right for a Britannia…I did even think could it be a Viscount fuselage…but again if it is, what were its origins!
MrB.175“Overshot into sea after power applied on landing instead of reverse thrust. The wreck could not be removed easily and so was blown up in-situ”.
So the photo cannot be of XL638 either. That seems to be all the RAF’s Brit’s accounted for.
Laurie
You’re quite correct on that. I used to work with a guy that was on duty with VASF the night of the accident and he told me that (next day) because the Royal Engineers could not pull the aircraft out from where it had come to rest, they first blew the fin and rudder off in able to open the airfield as the hight was causing an obstruction/danger to aircraft movements and after spares recovery proceeded to blow the remains up. So it’s very, very unlikely to have been XL638.
MrB.175MrB, both the andover and Argosy are still on the airfield. You can find recent pictures of both on the website :http://WWW.demobbed.org.uk
Regards
Mark, fantastic website. I’m used to looking at UK Serials every now and then but had missed this one. Top class, it’ll come in handy for many historian’s.
MrB.175Are you sure of the date, though
Well the date on the slide says June 1969 so I’m sure that’s correct but have to admit to a guess at location. So perhap it’s El Adem??? Any guess? I suppose it could even be Luqu but looks a bit too derserty!
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