Perhaps room could be found for a selection of these messages in a forthcoming issue of FlyPast?

Great shots on your site Phixer – I will have to go back and read the stories!

Phantoms look so good in RN colours – I bet it was fun living in a nest of them!

Thanks for the accolade.:o

As for stories I sent more to author Peter Caygill who, to my surprise, ended up creating a whole paragraph out of my dit’s in his book, for Pen&Sword, ‘Phantom From the Cockpit: Flying the Legend’. Unfortunately he embarrased me a little in the introductory paragraphs in said chapter by giving the impression that I was the only one fixing them at the time and particularly with the phrase ‘….who was tasked with keeping the aircraft operational during Ark Royal‘s first cruise to the Caribbean ….’.

He also changed my expansion of APCS from the correct ‘Approach Power Compensation System‘ into ‘Automatic Power Compensation System‘ which latter I would never have used having not heard it. Besides I carried out enough of the calibration checks to be very familiar with the correct term.

Expansion of acronyms seem to give authors difficulty for Steuart Campbell in his ‘Chinook Crash: the Crash of RAF Chinook Helicopter ZD576 on the Mull of Kintyre’ expands
FADEC as ‘Fully Automated Digital Engine Control‘ when it should be ‘Fully Automated Digital Electronic Control‘, it seems that this one is frequently expanded incorrectly.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Human caused climate change is a scam, turning into a religion real fast, attracting all kind of wackoes and wide-eyed extremists. Remindes me of some other movements, like Iconoclasts, Wiedertäufer and Maschinenstürmer.

That ruling is absurd. BAD! – to answer your question.

If you are using Michael Crichton’s ‘State of Fear’ as a reference then I can understand your misunderstanding of the issues.

A little research on the net can lead you to much information that should bring you to the conclusion that an anthropomorphic signature in greenhouse gas levels and the resultant warming leading to ‘climate change’ is very real.

As for Crichton’s book I will point you at:

http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/news/2004/story12-13-04b.html

as just one source which highlights the problems with his slant on the issues and also bring you up to speed on some research.

I have many more links if necessary, but hey, you do some work. 😉

Arrived this morning layout much flasher than the 1960s edition (now where have I put that) but that is the way of things these days often more form than substance although here there is enough of that latter to make it passable.

I did a Phantom Spey troubleshooting course at Derby in 1969 but lost my notes when I lent them to an opo’ to study for his Chief’s board and never got them back! 🙁

All I have left for some strange reason is a fold out schematic of the re-heat fuel control sysytem.

I have just come across an image of a Sea Vixen IFR a Javelin at:

http://www.seavixen.org/index.cfm?fa=contentGeneric.ahecdwrddykjxcae

At the risk of seeming pernickety, though, you do appear to imply that Sea Vixens were never called upon to do much more than maintain local air superiority in what were little more than police actions: they never had their mettle tested against seriously capable contemporaries, MiGs etc.

Ah! But you see, you conclude that because you know little about the aircraft and in particular the primary role for which it was intended. This role was not specifically to mix it with Migs but to provide the fleet with a deterrent against high flying Soviet bombers which may have been sent against the fleet. In this role they had some success. Success should not be calculated by kills alone. When our carriers were in UK waters their airgroups also provided another layer of defence for the homeland.

The Vixen and Javelin were both intended for this purpose but it just happens that the Vixen was the better aircraft and also the only one of the pair suitable for carrier operation, this for a multitude of reasons some mentioned here.

I am thinking of going for one.

Now on order.

I have a copy of a 1960s version of this book with the fuel diagram for the Avon in it complete with all its elegant kinetic valves.

My ol’ man had a copy of practically the same edition with errors in that diagram.

And you’re not suggesting expert knowledge is a prerequisite for making comments?Regards, hps

You cannot be serious! (Throws down racket. :D)

Are you trying to say that educating yourself on the technicalities of these machines is not germane to the discussion? If so that is an absurd position to take.

Now WRT the political and financial situation and shenanigans during the late 1940s, during the 1950s and 60s and on into the 70s (and let’s face it carrying on even to this day) I am well aware of much of the detail here.

For starters I was brought up during the 50s and early 60s with much of my family involved in the aircraft industry, at Glosters, Bristols (I watched The Brabazon overfly on more than one occasion) and Rotol-British Messier/Dowty with father being a design draughtsman at the latter. With grandfather ex-RFC, aeroplanes were in the blood so to speak and many hours assembling and painting model aircraft, reading Flying Review monthly for some years (paid for out of meagre pocket money) and Flight and Interavia (dad was on the reading list for works copies) I was well versed in these matters by the time I joined the RN hoping against hope that my artificer training would be categorised into AA by the end of the first year, it was. I consider myself reasonably well qualified to comment.

I have not lost the habit of reading widely not least on historical themes including the relevant aviation history and I am with you on the ire that you feel against officialdom when it comes to the backward state of some of our equipment during this period.

However I feel that your criticism, of the Sea Vixen in particular is unwarranted. To be sure the US was using the F4 Phantom in that particular role but as was proven by the SHARs performance the ability to reach Mach 2 is not the be all and end all.

On balance the Vixen was a good aircraft, if in service a little later than planned, but then the Firestreak (ex-Blue Jay) was not ready much before the in-service date of the Sea Vixen 1 (in its day Firestreak was a far more reliable weapon than the Sidewinder). By which time the Javelin was beginning to look a little silly for attacking high flying Russian bombers equipped with 2000 yard range radar controlled rear facing cannon where closing within 1000 yards (50 yards to be effective at night) to ensure hits with Aden cannon was suicide. The Javelin 7 with missiles needed higher powered Sapphires to cope with the extra weight and drag of the AAMs but even then ….?

Hence the evolution of the clunker Javelin 9 with afterburner, an afterburner that actually slowed the aircraft down if switched on much below 20000ft. Range was now limited requiring the addition of overload tanks (most Vixens flew operationally with a pair of 230igal tanks on the outboard pylons as standard practically from the beginning). One neat feature of in flight refuelling a Javelin 9 with external tanks was that as the tanks became full the re-heat had to be switched on to prevent the a/c pitching up at which point fuel was being burnt practically as fast as it was being pumped in. Wonderful!

The Vixen would have been fine for a few years but Sandys saw to it that the aircraft industry had to drop any promising developments that could have come out of the Farey Delta 2 (the French Mirage is an indicator of what we missed – I have a signed copy of Twiss’s book here) or the SR53 – 177. The latter was intended as a fast climbing high altitude interceptor of mixed GT and rocket power. The RN was most interested as were the Germans but my understanding is that Lockheed (by the use of financial dirty tricks) managed to get the Germans to adopt a modified form of F104 Starfighter – much to the cost of many a German family. Whether or not Saunders-Roe, with their limited production and testing infrastructure, could have delivered large numbers on time as required is a moot point.

If you haven’t already seen it I can recommend Tony Buttler’s British Secret Projects Jet Fighters Since 1950 for filling in some gaps.

The Gloster Javelin The RAF’s First Delta Wing Fighter Franks, Richard
ISBN: 1-905414-02-1

Sea Vixen De Havilland’s Ultimate Fighter Aircraft Franks, Richard
ISBN: 1-905414-04-8

de Havilland Twin-Booms Vampire, Venom and Sea Vixen, Barry Jones
ISBN: 1861266812

the last mentioned is riddled with errors, some howlers, in the Sea Vixen text, upon which I am more qualified to judge but errors in the Sea Venom section have also been spotted.

WRT Sea Vixen other book and journal sources have been cited here by myself and others but you may find the following web links useful:

http://www.condor49ers.org.uk/vixen.htm

http://www.vectorsite.net/avvamp_3.html

An interesting new site I have found which looks worth keeping an eye, particularly as it is being created by another ex Sea Vixen driver is:

http://www.seavixen.org/

Now as far as operations are concerned Sea Vixens were much in evidence in the Middle East and Far East during their period of service.

1961 Preventing a threat to Kuwait by Iraq from developing into anything worse.

1964 Air cover and strikes during a mutiny by local army units in Tanganyika which overran into Kenya and Uganda where airfields were seized so that the RAF could fly in re-inforcements.

1965 enforcing import sanctions against Ian Smith’s self independent Southern Rhodesia – the famed Beira – carriers and squadrons rotated into and out of that one.

1967 covering the withdrawal from Aden with strikes against local rebel factions.

Over an extended period operations against insurgents in Malaysia, Borneo and around the Indonesian area in general.

If they had not been there, what then?