PhixerOoops! Criticising people’s favourite aeroplanes, even mildly, clearly raises hackles…
Please take the following in the manner intended – non inflammatory.
Criticising any aeroplane is a troublesome thing to do especially when you include in the opening to an earlier post:
‘Freely admit that I know little about either of these aircraft…’
I respectfully suggest that you fill in the gaps of your knowledge on these aircraft before posting further on this. Referances have already been posted in this forum as have links to more.
The Sea Vixen certainly was involved in offensive missions but in its secondary role of GA and I suspect that the Javelin was too, although I only have one work of reference for this a/c.
WRT the Sea Vixen’s primary role, as with so many other aircraft, the very fact that the prospective opposition chose not to mix-it demonstrates their effectiveness.
As for a ‘favourite aircraft’, such a term deserves qualification. The Sea Vixen is certainly impressive in the air and in that respect is among my favourite aircraft. Anybody who witnessed the 1968 Farnborough display would likely concur.
However, having worked on and with these beasts then I would say that they are not my favourite aircraft in this respect, the Hunter would fit the bill here although even that had its awkward corners. I think that some of my neck and shoulder troubles are down to changing cartridges in the starter breaches of the T8s and GA11 that I mixed with.
PhixerReminds me of this true story.
As A700 users will know there was a How Found column for the snag and this is the entry in one of our FG1s on 892 on Ark,
How Found – In Flight
Fault – Wings would not fold.
I have not made it up and the pilot concerned later went on to fly the SHAR so of course no longer came across this dichotomy.
PhixerReminds me of this true story.
As A700 users will know there was a How Found column for the snag and this is the entry in one of our FG1s on 892 on Ark,
How Found – In Flight
Fault – Wings would not fold.
I have not made it up and the pilot concerned later went on to fly the SHAR so of course no longer came across this dichotomy.
PhixerNot surprising really. The DHA website has not been updated for nearly 4 years. Disregard it if I were you as regards information – the last updates were in summer 2003.
Yes. Thanks. It was about then that I ceased bothering.
I only hope things change.
PhixerJust a short note to say that I can reaally recommend Phixers web site. There are some great shots and comments, of G-CVIX , in its drone colours and some brilliant pictures of Phantoms and other aircraft of the FAA. Thanks Phixer for the heads up! I will go back to perusing the site!
Cheers, Alan
Gee thanks. 😮
They are not all good but then conditions were not always ideal and I was using Kodachrome II (25 ASA) and Agfa CT18 (50 ASA) for much of the time. Pinning down a Phantom catching a wire on ASA/ISO 25 is an aquired taste. I was so pleased when Fuji brought out their first 100 ASA transparency film. I tried Ektachrome but the processing was poor and all slides have bleached out over time. I curse on this for the loss of shots taken using the most expensive method and I was not exactly flush in those days. Wish I could have afforded more film.
PhixerI have just thought of another reason why the Sea Vixen was preferable for sea-going to the Javelin this that the Avon 208s could be fitted in either port or starboard positions, unlike the Javelin’s Sapphires.
Stowage space for spare engines on our carriers was tight something I appreciate from having looked after engines for all aircraft on Ark; Phantom and Buc’ Speys, Gannet Double Mambas, Wessex Gazelles, Paloustes and Solent starters too, whilst loaned off 892 to ships AED for a period. This WRT Ark, space on Vic’ (I had been on her with 893) and Hermes would probably be at even more of a premium. With the Javelin, with handed engines, afloat I can see the situation arising where a/c become hangar queens because the only spares are for the wrong side.
Phixer[QUOTE=alanl;1096208]
(I had a stint with 892 Phantoms on her predecessor).
Any chance you could share some of your memories and or pictures with us all ? !
Alan
I have put a few up on my web site, see my Public Profile.
BTW That site was started about 1995 using an ordinary text editor, although that text editor was better then than the limited Notepad is even now – clues on web pages) and long before even Tables were available as structural elements, let alone Frames and CSS. I try to still keep it simple using the same computer platform and an old, but still useful, HTML editor to place tags which helps.
PhixerI was a member of Simons Sircus flying as No 2 in the formation. 892 was my first squadron. I eventually flew the DH110 for around 1300 hours.
Thoroughly enjoyed it all.
(Sorry for the long delay, just joined)
And I thoroughly enjoyed watching from the ground both at Farnborough and during the practice sessions over Yeovilton. Didn’t a couple of you clip wings or something during one of the practices? I was on Hunters at station flight at the time and out on the hard-standing at the Westland end of 9 hangar about to get into a Hunter to do a ground run when I heard the sound of Vixens approaching fast and near overhead came the sound of clashing metal, I looked up quick but all seemed OK with no A/C behaving oddly and no falling debris.
The Farnborough display was superb. The weather was not good and plenty of moisture in the air to form those impressive compression vapour clouds around the aircraft during the fast low level passes. I was there with my father who had a couple of Dowty works passes.
I have seen a couple of pictures of the team in mag’s or books but they don’t give names in the captions.
Pete Sheppard may remember the occasion when he had to exit a Heron Flight T8 in a hurry shortly after take off. I was the last one to see the passenger’s dress sword as I stuffed it up into the nose bay with some other baggage. I then went off for a dental appointment and was astonished to find a smashed T8 canopy on 9 hangar’s deck on my return – then discovered the reason.:(
The Avon engine had disintigrated in flight from mechanical failure – suspect turbine nozzle guide vane retaining ring failure as we shortly found others in poor shape.
PhixerI’m new to the Forum so am just catching up on this thread.
It may come as a surprise to some that there is also at least one account of where a Sea Vixen FAW2 armed with Red Top missiles beat a Phantom FG1 (F-4K) during a simulated intercept. A full account of this is due to be included in a forthcoming book on the Sea Vixen by author Tony Buttler due for publication by Air-Britain later this year. Can’t wait!
I understand that there were plans for a supersonic version of the Sea Vixen but the twin boom configuration would have led to a big design issue as the heat generated by the afterburners would have caused potential problems around the tailplanerudders.
The Sea Vixen was an excellent fighter for its time and had good all round multi-role capability.
I am also new here and am just catching up.
I am also waiting eagerly for Tony Buttler’s ‘The Sea Vixen File’ to be published. I talked to him on the tel’ about 2 years ago about Vixens and asked why no author/researcher had mentioned the CWP (contractor’s working party) that was at Yeovilton in 1965/66 convertong Mk1s to Mk2s. I knew about this by being on 893 in 66 with some of our Mk2s comming via this CWP. It seemed like news to him. I then discovered that the book had been aborted from publishing because of new info surfacing. I doubt it was this CWP business, but if so then sorry folks.
A couple of books, one each on the Javelin and Sea Vixen have been published recently by Dalyrmple and Verdun Publishing and written by Richard Franks who mentions that Yeovilton CWP.
Tony Buttler has a good grasp of the Sea Vixen development proposals and has written articles for mag’s over the last few years. Aeroplane’s November 2004 Database was by Tony on the Sea Vixen and he had another article in Air Enthusiast May/June 2000.
Another article, ‘Sea Vixen Britain’s first missile specialist’ appeared in Air International April 1991.
By all accounts the Vixen had the edge over the Javelin at most heights and the Javelin was surely a non starter WRT that dreaded flat-spin and poor approach attitude for any deck landing to have any chance with the FAA. No particular bias here as I was borne and grew up in Gloster to the sound and sight of Javelins and much more besides.
PhixerWell for my money she looked her best in her red and yellow drone colours.
Steve
😮
AArgh! Noooo!
She looked better in Red Bull, but by then she was in dire need of a repaint as detail from the full size version (good enough out on SuperA3) of the underside shot used as Avatar shows.
Will be changing avatar as soon as I can get similar shot in new colours.
PhixerHaving been keeping my eye out for info’ on this aircraft I was astonished to see it airborne in authentic looking FAA and 899 Squadron markings during the South Today reportage of the re-dedication of HMS Ark Royal (I had a stint with 892 Phantoms on her predecessor). Mind you if I had blinked I would have missed it.
That evening I e-mailed the Beeb to see if they could re-run that shoot sometime and giving more time to watch – have heard nothing.
This induced me to web search and land here having now joined this forum (and noticing somebody else had picked what I was considering as a user name – no prizes for guessing 😉 ) I would like to express my thanks for most enlightening threads along with some splendid shots of the aircaft posted here and on sites linked to.
Unfortunately disability gets between me and many events and I struggle a bit to operate a camera these days but I am still keen to try when I get a chance and do support the RNHF as much as I can.
Glad to see that XP924 correctly supports the call sign 134. Unfortunately, according to my references, Robert Tomlin in ‘Moment of Truth’ (of which I have a copy) got this wrong by painting in 124. XP924 did wear this call sign earlier in her 899/Eagle career but did not have the observer’s frangible hatch fitted at this time. Further, at the date the video (cited below) was shot 899 were still using the small ‘mailed-glove’ on a black ringed white oval emblem on the tail fins. Thus there are historical anomalies in Tomlin’s picture.
To check, I have just dug out a DVD ‘Warship Eagle’, from BEULAH and available from the Fleet Air Arm Museum
to watch the sequence where XP924 catches a wire and then proceeds to the forward deck park whilst folding her wings.
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