Christ! get a grip. It’s an animal for Gawd’s sake.

And are you not an animal?

Haven’t you anything more serious to concern yourselves with? Like the UK turning into a police state, and/or Islamic medievalists trying to turn the social clock back 600 years – ?
Yours, only slightly tongue in cheek – hps

Indeed I am concerned about such issues as you mentioned and in particular question the validity of all religious beliefs (as is clear from a prominent external link on my site) however for reasons I have mentioned before I do not consider such behaviour of as trivial a treatment as you would like to give it.

Consider that, especially in the light of your police state concern, you may one day be swept up in some draconian net and incarcerated, being guarded by those with a similar mindset to those in the video. You may then have cause to be worried, for you will have no knowledge of the eventual outcome of your imprisonment and of how the treatment meted out to you develops, after all if your guards have been brainwashed into thinking of you as something less than human then you will be exposed to risk just like any other animal.

The Vigilante, as you may know, was designed as a nuclear high-level strike aircraft.

To be sure it had a capacious weapons bay but was designed to let the weapons literally fall out of its back side as it climbed up in a half loop, rolling off the top and diving to exit from the blast ASAP. Thus it was not well designed for launching weapons forward.

Of course a later version was developed for low level strike, however it was a large aircraft and not designed for combat manouvers. For one thing the cockpit was well ahead of the CofG and CofP and thus the crew would have experienced excessive G forces with even comparatively gentle air combat manouvers.

The comments of RN test pilot Commander RM ‘Mike’ Crosley in his book ‘Up In Harms Way’ relating his experience of flying the Vigilante out of Patuxent could illuminate further. The gist of his narrative put across quite strongly that low level and high speed in the Vigilante could be most uncomfortable, detrimental to the pilots health by causing permanent eye damage and blindness if prolonged side buffet was experienced. This was caused by the aforementioned large distance between wing and cockpit combined with the rather slab slide. This latter was even more pronounced with the TSR2 and, as Mike Crosely indicates, may well have been one factor in that aircraft’s cancellation.

WRT the Vigilante attempts to change the role of this aircraft would made even more of a sow’s ear out of a silk purse.

As you probably know when aircraft are designed for specific roles their structures are stressed to suit. I doubt that the Vigilante was correctly stressed for the air combat role.

A miss-match in stressing to role was IIRC one reason why the Canberra T22, with the Buc’ nose, was retired earlier than scheduled, the airframe could not stand up to treatment when trying to emulate a Buc’, a Buc, as anyone who gets close will appreciate, is built like the proverbial ‘brick khazi’.

*sigh* and what is the ‘point’ of this thread?

That because a few marines got bored whilst out patroling and had a little fun with a goat that they -and by they I mean the entirity of the USMC, US Army and every other poor schmuck who is unfortunate enough to be sent out there – therefore MUST be acting dispicably against the population?

Groan:(

Come on lads, if the damned goat can survive that then hows it going to be worried by a jarhead pulling a prank? :confused:

Which completely misses several points.

Nothing like a little obfuscation is there.:(

Maybe you could elaborate your logic here and explain how one US marine frightening a goat with a childish prank equates to US troops torturing Afghan civilians.:rolleyes:

My logic is based upon study of psychology whilst engaged on a, successful, teaching degree course and much other reading then and since. My reading is wider than just aviation and military matters and stretches to Dawkins, Dennett, Harris etc.

As another has pointed out studies have shown that those who torment animals are more likely to cross the line to other humans. Cultural differences can cause those from one to treat, and even think of, those from another culture as less than human. History is littered with examples of such. I have read much history too. Misha Glenny’s ‘The Balkans’ can illuminate as can books based on the more obvious historical examples.

With fantasists like you who…

I watched the video so was not fantasizing. you assumed wrong, again.

Don’t be so insulting, using smilies to shield insults and inflamitary comments is low.

Thats why they only frightened the goat rather than kill it.:D

You made assumptions about djcross not having been near loud noises.

And you made the assumtion that the original post was a troll. Don’t see how you can take any moral high ground on this one.

Another thread doomed for early closure I fear but people are expressing their feelings about the cruel acts needlesly perpetrated.

As for the goat being killed by a blunt knife for food why is that relevent?
Besides terrorising animals is unlikely to improve their food value.

Firstly I have to say that this thread has an element of trolling about it. Secondly it is just harmless fun, it is bored soldiers having a bit of fun, nothing more- get over it.

I am not sure about trolling here.

I am appalled that you should consider it harmless fun. It is not, it is an old trick but nonetheless as cruel as can be.

Consider that this may be only the thin end of the wedge, it doesn’t take much thought to appreciate that this could be used on the unwitting native populations of the occupied territories and thus be a war crime in the making. Hell this could already have happened.

With sealords like you who needs crazy marines.