Increased airflow doesn’t depends only on increased fan diameter.
“Precisely”:p means you guys precisely DONT read SNECMA infos (let alone that of ONERA), the progresses comes from internals aerodynamic design and tolerence to high temperatures.
Airflow have been increased, internal hot parts tolerence to high temperatures too this is what matters and at the end of the day the ECO produces 90 kN while being smaller, lighter and even more so than the E-4.
M88-3 dates from 13 years, you guys are missing some apparently…
Precisely, missing 13 years of tecnologic progresses.
Funny, the whole M88 evolution is properly advertised and covered by the press, how comes all this gossiping?
From 1850K to 2050K and you dont mention it???
The 90kN test presss release from SNECMA dates from 2005.
Successful tests by Snecma Moteurs of a higher-performance M88 demonstrator
Courcouronnes, January 17, 2005Snecma Moteurs successfully carried out the first tests of a technology demonstrator designed to enhance M88 engine performance and pave the way for future upgraded versions.
These tests are part of a technology demonstration program co-funded by the French Ministry of Defense. The program aims to demonstrate lower operating costs and higher dispatch reliability for the Rafale’s M88-2 engine, by incorporating innovative new technologies, as well as studying the feasibility of developing a variant combining higher thrust with lower fuel burn and weight. It will ensure the competitiveness of future versions of the Rafale, in terms of both flight performance and payload capacity.
“Snecma Moteurs is very pleased with the success of these initial tests,” said Jean-Luc Engerand, head of Snecma Moteurs’ military engine division. “It marks a new phase in the development of our military engines and paves the way for future upgraded M88 versions.”
The initial series of tests was used to characterize the engine’s steady-state performance, with settings for versions offering both 75kN of thrust and 90kN, at full throttle with afterburner. Performance and endurance tests of the demonstrator will continue in early 2005.
Designed for the Rafale multirole fighter, the M88 is the first member of a family of new-generation engines for 21st century combat and advanced training aircraft. The first production engine was delivered in 1996, and the M88-2 version now powers both the air force and naval versions of the Rafale. It is particularly well suited to low-altitude penetration and high-altitude interception missions.
http://www.snecma.com/spip.php?article194&var_recherche=M88
glitter looks possible since FEASABILITY studies said so.
Uses of TWO engines one for performances the other endurence and BTW you cant grab the fact that i do my researches and you dont, please dont try to imply you know about it you don’t either so who said i dont have the informations please???
ECO have been FULLY tested to the 90 kN setting.
Quiet obviously you dont comprehend the word performances.
What makes me laugh is the ones that forget that french forces used to operates numerous US made aircrafts and weapons…
F-100 Supersabres and AIM9B comes to mind but there was more than these.
French buses were and always have been FULLY compatible with US equipement, in FACT it was often EASIER to operate a STANDARD NATO weapon than an early French-made one (R530 vs AIM9s for example).
Beside, integration of US weaponry is more an European problem than specificaly a French one expecialy when it have to be done at squadron level:
One have to recall the “love story” between RAF Tornado F3s and ASRAAM/AMRAAM which integrations cost went through the roof and were actualy never fully achieved, forcing RAF Tornados to deploy with Skyflashs and AIM9s.
Compare this with the very succesful integration of AGM45 Maverick on the UKs Harrier and one can understand it can also depends on the weapon itself.
Integration means before all COST and of course TIME; slaving an IR AAM to a radar cost MORE than simple modes, now add an HMD capacity to that and you double the cost…
Mirages IIIs always were able to use AIM9s and GBU-012 with full modes because they were SIMPLE, and when budgets are there to allow for a full integration of more advanced weapons, there never was a problem with the F1s or the 2000s, you got what you pay for, as simple as that.
BTW this obviously goes the other way around, ask L-M what were the issues during integration of AS30Ls to the F-16 (they wanted it hard, it was WAY more acurate than anything in the US inventory, Less than one meter from Max launch distance), Now how about BAP 100s (or Durandals i cant recall which one) on F-15E/F/Gs?
The difference being that when France would more than happily collaborate to promote French-made weapons the US would rather turn the whole process into an hurdle race to promore their own aircrafts…
greg-Besides the efforts of both Greek and French, it was never done properly.-
That’s your home work you’re writing about boy, not everyone is that incompetent in this world and you’re more than welcome to post a source instead of gossips…
-Which of course it was less than integrating the AIM9+AMRAAM, but still a lot!-
W.H.A.T.E.V.E.R, a la pelle; trademark.
Sens-To get much more from that, you have to built the related software and to integrate it into your weapon-system.-
You only have to get the manufacturer approval and datas, Rayethon AIM9s are STANDARD NATO and quiet easy to integrate to ANY aircrafts with a budget.
BME330-Spanish air force never operated a single Magic missile, both in the Mirage IIIEE and the Mirage F-1CE/EE fleet, always operated with Sidewinder missiles.
GOOD point, and integration is COMPLETE with full modes too.
—————————————————————————-
-The Greek F.1CGs entered service with the 342 Mira, which at the time was still using the F-102A Delta Dart as an all-weather interceptor. The last Delta Daggers in PA service would be retired in 1977 when all 40 F.1CGs were delivered. Unfortunately the PA Staff did not buy any of the French AA missiles to equip the new fighters and so these had to be armed with US-supplied AIM-9Js instead. In 1984 the KETA (Center for Research and Aviation Technology) stared to develop the wiring for the 2 outboard underwing pylons, in order to make F.1Cgs able to carry 4 AAM instead of 2. This happened with Dassault’s help by 1985 and ever since the PA Mirage tooth four AIM-9P-2.-
-The French trained the Greek pilots in horizontal interceptions, using the medium range Matra 530’s, but the Greek pilots were much more used to WVR tactics and procedures. On the other side of the Aegean Turkey had bought 40 F-104S’s from Italy in order to use them as interceptors, but these were never armed with anything else than Sidewinders over the Aegean, despite Italian claims that the Sparrow could be carried also. So the balance in armament between Greece and Turkey regarding their specialized interceptors was there, albeit the Greek F.1CG’s were much more maneuverable and flexible in operations than the Starfighters. The only part of the flight envelope that the Starfighter was better was the climb rate. In fact the Mirage F.1CG’s had better sustained and instantaneous turn ratio than any THK or PA fighter in service, until the arrival of the F-16 – this was an exceptionally important point in a situation where the PA and the THK were encountering each other almost on a daily basis in mock-up dogfights over the Aegean Sea. Considering the small size and the slim silhouette, as well as the smoke-less engine of the F.1CG, and then the Cyrano IV radar that could track targets in realistic interception conditions over the Aegean at 45-50 miles out, the Mirage ‘supremacy’ became legendary already at the time. The type was considered by PA pilots an honour to be chosen to train on and fly, and until 1982 only the most experienced fliers were transferred to the two units serving with it, the 342 or 334 Mira.-
Looks like another legend going down in flame…
Please give us a break if you dont know about it just avoid commenting.
glitter
Not at all.
I can only see the building of 16 M88 ECO at 7,5t.
Sorry it is possible to rate it aty 90kN looks like you still miss some bits here and then.
Of course it’s possible, but longer, more expensive and less reliable.
Whatever, no more to say about this quote, in FACT, the AIM-9B set-up was WAY more reliable than the R-530 one, please get yourself informed before writing.
Nope, the 9t has seen “feasability studies” and would required some devellopement before being available on the market.
It was tested at 90 kN and certified as a possiblity as always you are missing information and take it for granted.
But I’m not worried about that.
Am’ worried about your habbit to dismiss information you do not have.:dev2:
Posters on forums would LOVE to see 9t M88 while most AF would love to have a 7,5t M88 with a very low MCO
It have little to do with posters it have to do with GIE customers.
arthuro
Rank 5 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Reims
Posts: 397I think that M88-3 datas are bogus since the eco core will have the same diameter than current M88-2 or am I mistaken ?
You’re spot on, only Glitter is a couple YEARS late that’s all… 
As usual…
Jackonicko You’ve had some fairly one-sided tub-thumping answers so far.
Are you taking the MICKEY Jack?
Thats what exactly YOU have been doing for YEARS!!!
Please provide with sources and STOP trying bo imply that YOU know better than proferssionals with NO stains on their names.
It’s rather insulting to the profession of journalist that YOU keep implying to always know better.
Try the LOGOPAND forum, perhaps now they’ll believe a single word of what you say because we won’t… 
–The FSO will provide all-weather air-to-air and air-to-ground surveillance and targeting and, says Thomson-CSF Optronique, is the first such system in the West to work on the 3-5 micron band as well as the usual 8-12 micron wavelength, the former providing “considerably improved detection in humid conditions”-
DATE:05/05/99
SOURCE:Flight International
Tests begin on Rafale optronics
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/1999/05/05/50879/tests-begin-on-rafale-optronics.html
All-weather, long range identification.
All-weather Advanced Tactical FLIR so Sagem is taking the myckey when they claim all-weather FLIR technologies?
torpedo -it remains to be seen if kinematic ranging is accurate enough for target designation.-
Since WHEN exactly does IR AAMS needs target designation within their seeker’s detection range?
MICA EM seeker’s detection range is less than half that of the IR MICA, it makes more sens to use laser for targets beyhond the 18 km range for the EM than for a IR which offers similar-to-superior performances than the laser itself.
-(ghost targets may appear due to a number of phenomena)-
Like GIE isn’t doing their home work, you should read some relevant documentation on the subject of Rafale Squadron service entry and CEAM experiences instead of posting outdated theoricals…
The only way it occasionaly happened actualy is when AWACs datas were fusioned and then again you can be sure it was sorted out promtly as early as the CEAM figured it out.
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