So?

Doesn’t make YOUR case on engine cooling. 🙂

what is horseshoe vortex?
what the horseshoe vortex look like?
what cause the horseshoe vortex on aircraft?
what the effects will be caused by the horeshoe vortex? or the function.

http://search.nasa.gov/search/search.jsp?nasaInclude=Horseshoe+vortex

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88742main_H-2500.pdf

If you dont know, dont bother with wilki, ask DRIDEN, THEY know…

Maybe the performance department forgot about the ram drag when promising performance! 😀

This article is a total joke, proof is in the puding, errrrrrrrrr, the advance in the METEOR programe.

Rafale is firmly in second position as for the M88 perfs, it’s way beyhond the anti-french propaganda usuals….

The M-88 engine looks set to be a running sore for some time, and one over which Rafale will get adverse comparisons with Typhoon, which has 20–35 per cent more power to date from its EJ200 engines, with a planned, risk-managed growth path to increase engine power

M88 is also 20–35 per cent lighter without the IR radiation supressor, DGA just ordered SNECMA kits for production of modules pushing the thrust to 90kn….

DGA awards M88 TCO contract to Snecma
The French defense agency DGA (Délégation Générale pour l’Armement) announced on January 2008 that it was awarding to Snecma the “TCO Pack” (Total Cost of Ownership) contract for the M88-2 engine which power Rafale multirole fig (designated “Pack CGP” in French).

http://www.snecma.com/spip.php?article719&var_recherche=ECO&lang=en

Who wrote this blog again?
http://www.snecma.com/IMG/pdf/Fact_sheet_Snecma_M88_pack_CGP_VA_OK.pdf

Your link show not your second Channel, it’s show your Fan-bybass!:rolleyes:

They BOTH have a bypass channel which BTW cools the hot turbine blades, only M88 posses one MORE channel then EJ-200 AND there IS another one around the engine itself.

You got to count from TWO to FOUR, simple.

And where use the M-88 Blisks? It’s used aged fishtail technic.

The E1 yes, the E4 uses blisk and more to it, its hot turbine runs WAY HOTER than that of EJ200 at 1800*c.

No need for “documentations” and commecials here, reality shows one thing, running hoter internaly, M88 ALSO have a lower IR signature.

Where is your second M-88-2 cooling chanel?:rolleyes:
Your M-88-2 have an ejector typ nozzle.;)
Left photo ejector closed, right ejector open.

The FIRST is INTERNAL, cooling the blades, the SECOND is cooling the engine internal CASING exhausting in the afterburner channel, the THIRD is cooling this CASING and the Afterburner casing.

And just in case you didn’t notice there is an additional channel cooling the external skin of the engine, running between the engine and the airframe internal skin, which exhausts between the two sets of con-di nozzles.

I SHORT there are 3 engine casing on M88 vs 2 on EJ200 and an external engine cooling channel on m88 v2 NONE to EJ200.
http://www.onera.fr/coupdezoom/18-barrieres-thermiques.php

One doesnt reach such HIGHTWR withouttrading and EJ200 trades weight vs IR signature.

Posting pictures like these and asking such a question is not a very scientific way to do it.

Pretty hilarious how any edge of LO on this forum means that the jet with the advantage is better, disregarding everything else.

I think people should be reminded more often of what stealth realy is.

It’d be interesting to know how the different systems perform on a standardized task.

In the case of OSF exactly the same way as the radar, and you definitly dont need as much data when you posses a BVR IR AAM, at least NOT in range.

When your IRST can see the target clearly (NOT as a dot) you generaly are in range of your BVR AAMs, and i dont believe that we are talking 120 km with positive ID allowing for a shot.

What you are talking about is for AAMs of the AIM-120 class, give a 80km range to ASRAAM and you’re sorted, as early as you can ID your target you’re on for a shoot.

@uss novice

IMHO, thats where the Rafale/Mica IIR/OSF combo has a serious A2A advantage. IIRC the Rafale tries to remain totally radar silent, while using the IRST to detect and identify and then letting loose the MICA IIR mainly using its datalink to guide the missile until the seeker achieves lock. Also, correct me if i’m wrong, iirc the mica does have LOBL.

You are indeed correct, more to it, MICA IR are used together as additional IR detection power with sensor fusion, as they are as IRST on he 2000 5Fs.

The “Passive” A2A culture is a shock to pilots in the AdA and i guess Typhoon pilots starts to apreciate this capability too, the problem being the lack of passive missiles (IR) for BVR engagements in Typhoon’s case.

MICA range is 80km.

Personally, I think the performance of Pirate in Detection / Image identification range, should be similar to the OSF since they use the same IIR optronic techonology.

It is possible that Pirate beneficiated from further developements as it is the last system to have been designed by Thales, i guess its range should be in the order of <> 10% higher, but as opposed to OSF it doesn’t have the same angular coverage than the radar (correct me if i’m wonrg there) Frequencies used are the same though…

I am curious about IR signature reduction methods on the Typhoon — unfortunately I did not find much about this topic. Could somebody help me?

Simple; there isnt ANY and it gets even worse.

EJ200 only posses ONE internal cooling channel, it is even advertised as being runing HOT engine cases.

The result is a (quiet) high IR signature of BOTH engine plume and lower airframe skin.