ZZ190 was J-4066 G-HHAE/G-BXNZ
ZZ191 was J-4058 G-HHAD/G-BWFS

Many thanks!

Several things about the Cheetah lead me to believe that the aircraft are not Kfirs.

So Isarel took Kfirs, yanked out the J-79’s and sold them to South Africa?

That just sounds weird.

Cheetahs lack the ram-air inlet at the base of the tail and the rear fuselage is also somewhat slimmer due to the fact that the aircraft is fitted with the Atar 9K-50 engine as opposed to the much bulkier J-79.

Additionally, I’ve heard mention of the fact that the canards on the Cheetah are different from those on the Kfir? (Of course I think they changed from Kfir C.2 to C.7/10 so perhaps that might be what that comment typically refers to).

If the Cheetahs are former Kfirs, were they just completely torn apart and rebuilt (i.e. changing the rear fuselage and tail, etc.)?

Anyone else have thoughts on where the Cheetah C airframes actually came from?

It seems we are in agreement that the Cheetah E & D airframes are former Mirage III or 5 airframes. The Cheetah C seems to be the source of the controversy……

On another subject has anyone seen a Swiss Mirage IIIS actually carrying the Falcon AAM? What hardpoints were they fitted on?

We have been over this before! They are Kfirs with reworked tail sections and built to Kfir 2000 standard, hence different canards to the earlier Kfir. Most of the serials are known. Not all Cheetah D’s are Mirages?? 858-862 are Kfirs. They were flown to SA onboard foreign B747’s charted by El Al.

Nothing weird about it, sanctions ruled and at the time Israel had two customers, one which was later allowed the J-79.

SA-7 is not very effective at all… the Launch firing window is rather small … only in rear aspect…
Also in those picture you can see those Mi-24 without Exhaust Hiding devices… it seems that they forgot A-stan lessons.

Apart from it being dated today, the SA-7 has been extremely effective??

Probably had nothing to do with freedom of speech but rather your inablity to voice your opinion without swearing and name calling.

Looks great, is is still flying? Last heard there were crewing proficiency problems with the demise of one of the members.

Was flying in September!

1976 A SAAF Impala was shot down by an Angolan Allouette III helicopter.

?? May 1982, SAAF 1 Squadron Mirage F.1AZ shot down an Angolan FAPA / DAA Mi-8 Hip helicopter with its 30mm cannon.

29 September 1985 South African Air Force Impala Mark II pilots claimed two Angolan Mi-25 helicopters.

30 September 1985, four Mi-25 Hinds and two Mi-17 Hips on their way to Jamba were shot down by a Squadron of eight South African Air Force Atlas Impala II.

23 September 1987, Angolan Air Force MiG-23MF jet fighters shot down a Namibian Air Force helicopter east of Cuito Cuanavale with a R-60 Aphid AAM.

During 1976 the Cuban’s were using some civilian Allouette’s and these were not armed, so this theory is false.

During May 1982 a Mirage F1-AZ destroyed a Mi-8 on the ground. It was not shot down.

On 27/09/85 Mare and Pienaar from 4 SQN shot down two Angolan Mi-25’s near Cuito Cuanavale, whilst flying Imp Mk.II’s.

On 29/09/85 Impala Mk.II’s shot down 2 Mi-8’s and 2 Mi-25’s. Again the pilots were from 4 Sqn, Truter, van der Heever and Westoby making the kills.

The Namibian AF did not exist in 1987!? The only SAAF helicopter lost that year was near Oshakati in January and this was not by AAM.