Z1pp0do you really think the military is competent enough to do large coup after 15 years of AK rule. they did what they could.
I’m not gonna feed the troll.
Z1pp0…my BS indicator gets lit up like a Christmas tree..
Hey dude I live with this everyday! To me everyday is christmas! (Her gün bayram!) XD
Z1pp0…
how is the military procurement going now? what happen to that long range SAM system implementation and rest of military projects. you can see they cant implement any thing on time let alone with quality.
Well unfortunatly people are used to a bad situation here. Evreyone I know including myself is acting more or less like bussiness as usual. Ofc everyone is watching the media frenzy on how the government is handeling the situation. All major hardware procurement programs are still in effect. The long range SAM system you specificaly asked for was in a slow pace before this incident, and the reasons are political. When the chinesee bidders won, USA and EU pretty much said NO you can’t! A new stage in the process has already started. Aselsan and Roketsan are looking for foregin partners etc..
Z1pp0Obviously there has been various incidents in many military bases, but anyone who acted outside the chain of command were stopped by the soldiers within the chain of command; I don’t buy the part that whole thing is stopped by some truck drivers parking their trucks at gates or on runways. Since the chain of command was broken, there also has been much confusion as great majority of coup soldiers were unaware they were participating in the coup taken to streets with the orders of “military drills againist terrorism” or “precaution againist an expected terrorist attack”…
Pretty good summarisation to the whole cluster fudge. wd Andraxxus
Z1pp0… and that has taken millions of people from Middleast to gain favors. infact Turkey is now the biggest threat to EU well being as the Middleastern money that supposed to invest and buy products from EU will be needed in Turkey…
Lol wtf? Accepting 3 millions syrians go gain favor from whom? Well nvm whatever it’s totaly OOT. Dont worry there are great countries in EU that will stop the ‘muslim’ invasion, like greece.
Z1pp0there can be more stuff that got destroyed and disabled as only the people purged can maintain it.
http://www.jordantimes.com/news/business/coup-costs-turkey-economy-100b%E2%80%99
[The foiled coup attempt seeking to unseat the government of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has cost the Turkish economy 300 billion lira ($100 billion/90 billion euro), the trade minister was quoted as saying on Tuesday.]
To me, from what I have seen here in Turkey, he is grossly over exaggerating the damage. The economy was already in bad state. With large loans to be paid shortly with no funds. Now there is a plausible reason (a coup attempt) to renegotiate with the loangivers. But hey if I was trade minister; I would also seize the opportunity! 🙂
Even though a large number of soldiers and officers were arrested there are still plenty of people left in the military for redundancy that could do the job.
As of 27 July 15846 were brought in custody. Of these 10012 are soldiers (mixed rankings). Of the tota, 8133 people have been arrested.
Z1pp0Perhaps this is the evidence? I’d personally like to see the main-gear, engines or the rotor hub as these are the most compact parts of a helo.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]247425[/ATTACH].Image from this articel: Regarding the helicopter, statement by PM himself (7 killed in the helicopter, suggesting it was an S-70i): http://www.milliyet.com.tr/basbakan-…yaset-2282190/
Orko_8 said already said it. F-16’s droped LGBs on a police helicopter (Bell 429) getting ready for take off from the special police headquaters. Also in that article it states
[…çukurda bir helikopter bir enkaz haline geldi. Orada da 7 yiğit kardeşimizi şehit verdik]
= “…We see a helicopter in a hole became a wreck. Where we gave 7 valiant martyrs.”
So only with this statement it was most likely a police helikopter.
Z1pp0Interesting. I’d figure them for Super Tucano operators.
AFAIK there has always been a rivalry of different degrees between Brazil and Argentina. I also think that Argentina wants to get on better terms with USA for the future procurment and politics.
Z1pp0No they didn’t.
The 117S turbofan engine introduces a wider fan (932mm compared with 905mm in AL-31F), advanced low- and high-pressure turbines, and all new digital control system (FADEC).
If its wider, then its wider…
Could they not increase just the fan while keeping the outer dimensions unaffected? Sort of shaving off the outercasing. I know 27mm is a lot. But it’s (only) 13.5 mm on each side. Haavarla do you have the specific dimensions available for AL-31F, not just the first stage but also casing etc?
Z1pp0There have been conflicting reports on such an incident from the very start of the incident. Some sources say one S-70, some say one AH-1W was shot down. No confirmation, visual or written has been made available yet.
So far the two most common stories are:
1. One S-70A and one AH-1 (or T129) attacked MIT (national intel agency) HQ. S-70A was shot down during insertion of commandos.
2. One AH-1 (or T129) was shot down while / after attacking TurkSAT (state satellite operator) HQ.
Yes well all reports I have seen have the character of sensationalism. Some only have a single sentance to the effect of “a helicopter was brought down”. Still over 2 weeks later and I haven’t seen a single newspaper or tv news showing a (burning) wreckage. Which I find peculiar. There have been several reports of helicopters [of sikorsky type] :stupid: taking damage from small arms fire while trying to take over different institutions. For example the police headquarters in Istanbul. The staff HQ have since stated that no hardware is missing. Even the [sikorsky type] that defected to greece has been returned.
In short I am not convinced any helicopter was actually brought down or writtenoff. But I am pretty sure some have taken small arms damage.
Z1pp0“Oi! Come back here with that aircraft!”
calm down gov’nah. It fell of a truck. oim just retunin’ it.
Z1pp0not sure why you dont count European exports?
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Peter Griffin: 7 (Cheque, Hungry, South Africa, Thai, Brazil, Slovakia) 20, 14, 26, 12, 36, 12 = 120
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Technically only South Africa and Thailand actually bought them, the other are leasing/renting while Sweden still owns them. But I expect these countries to eventually actually buy them.
The Cheque republic an Slovakia are doing some join airdefence squadron, why did they divide anyways? Should have stayed Chekoslovakia 🙂
\Dan
Z1pp0Fast packs are one hell of a good idea. Thanks to them there was no need to build a new strike plane.
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Well… they did!
F-15A-D are air superiority aircrafts, the F-15E is a strike aircraft. There are substantial structural differences between the two. Fast packs was not enough for Earlier Eagles to carry the same bombload as the E. To get better performance in a2a they kept the structure light. Hence last year (or was it two?) a F-15C broke apart in midflight, lost the entire front section due to structural catastrofic failiuer.
Having said that the Israelis did some own modifications to the earlier Eagles to carry bombs. But it would still be a limited load and not as efficient as an strike eagle.
\Dan
Z1pp0I think we have a lot of designers with plenty of free time at their hands with all these YF23, YF22 and PAKFA and J-20 inspired designs. Any actually design model (scale) that they have shown to the press?
No models so far. The only renderings is what Sintra postedfound on fairs and magazine advertisments. But I consider these are more generic “lets show them something” designs depicting the general idea for what might come rather than actual design proposals.
Z1pp0It took four partners to afford Typhoon, there is no way Turkey can afford to go a one-up design on it’s own. What possible advantage could its indigenous design have over a Typhoon …
What possible advantage could its indigenous design have over a Gripen NG …
The desired advantage is to increase the Turkish industrial base and knowhow to design, develop and produce these kinds of weapon systems. This follows an already established road map like the F-16 asembly or ATAK T129 development. Every new major defence project has more local content than the previous one. Thats the desired advantage.
Rii-
…If you took all their TuAF budget for the next ten years, does that even sound like enough money to develop an F-15 competitor let alone a stealth air superiority fighter? Turkey has joint ventures in only a fraction of the core, aviation-specific electronics businesses. They are going to have to develop everything from the ground up, including stealth skins. Just sounds like empty promises…
The government is the one that ultimatly finances TF-X, not TuAF. The Local industry, the government and the powers that be are all in favor of TF-X. GNP is increasing, more roads are beeing built, railroads expanded, new airpots, 40+ universities in the last 20 years and infrastructure in general. Why haven’t this been done before? I would blame some realy bad strategic choises made by the Ottoman empire.. but this is totaly OT and I’m gonna drop it now 🙂 The point is that even though the Turkish finances might seem dodgy they are improving slowly but shurly and they will find a way to finance it. The will be a lot of political posturing both foreign and domestic. Delays will be inevitable and I would consider it a success if first flight is before 2025. It’s a lot to do but if there is a will there is always a way so to speak.
Turkey is gaining a very enviable record in sucessful JVs and its own products. They are clever enough to get help where they need it and try and do everything else they can. Much better then trying to invent the wheel from scratch. Does it mean they are dependent on other countries still? Of course…
Turkey’s industrial position has been so low that it means it can only go up :dev2: From not even beeing able to produce aircraft tires (or even car tires) in the 70´s to the brink of developing indeginous fighter aircraft today. Quite a feat IMO. Even though companies like ASELSAN and HAVELSAN is making strides in defence avionics, Turkish industry is still far behind. I belive that foreign intelectual property will likely be high with a lot of local license production. Savunma Sanayi Mustesarligi (SSM) will probably demand that the mission computer be 100% Turkish though. This in turn means that export license for whatever radar, ECM, ESM, radio, IFF etc will be highly dependent on a foreign government, which in this case means a direct competion with eurocanards, F-35 and F-18’s. I dont even consider Russian electronics on a political level. although…:dev2: nvm 😛 Long story short not even considering the engine choice, TF-X exports seems highly unlikely, but the fruits of this is more promesing.
Turkey doesn’t want more F-16s. It wants something more up to date.
Turkey isn’t intending to design much from the ground up, any more than SAAB did for Gripen. ..
The model seems to be more like that, with Turkish firms doing what they’re capable of & the rest being bought in, preferably with Turkish firms gaining expertise through licence-production or new joint ventures.
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Totaly agree.
They are aiming for an F-35, but one that can supercruise,
and then it is not far fetched that this machine will form the air superiority platform, with much better high alt agility,
a slim F-22 in other words
Right on the money. TuAF have had a long standing requirement for a high altitude air superiority (supremacy) fighter. Since they are already aquireing the F-35, an excellent strike aircraft btw, the logical thing to do would be to procure TF-X as such. Besides The F-16 will also be around for a while to do strike missions.
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The only official renditions that we have for the TF-X are these:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229526[/ATTACH]
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IMO these proposals look weak, are generic, show lack of imagination and development potential for what I have in mind. Not that I claim to know what TuAF is planing. The TF-X doesn’t have to be all that the F-35 already is. 1: Keep the requirements simple enough to satisfy the most urgent shortcomings (Air supremacy) 2: Select a configuration that in the future can be developed for different missions a lá Flanker/Fullback combo and/or F-4ES. 3: Select an engine (or two) that fits the primary mission. My personal preference would be something like a downscaled YF-23. A single center weaponsbay with enough width to fit a single 2000lb bomb and 2 AAM’s. A lentgh to fit a harpoon sized store would be desirable but not a primary requirement, the longer the better though, subject to overall empty weight.
Aozora Model’s “F-23S Gray Phantom” plastic model seems like a better choice than the ones presented. GO Aozoraaa!!! Banzai!!
[ATTACH=CONFIG]229556[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]229557[/ATTACH]
…if they went with a European partner then M88 makes about as much sense. Considering they already have strong American ties then it would probably make more sense to stick with the engine they already use or go with F4x4. They are aiming for a light fighter and a single F4x4/EJ200/M88 would be too little, but two of … they could go a single F100.
“They are aiming for a light fighter” dafuq?! how do you figure 50+ k a light fighter? Anyways Sintra already replied. 🙂
I have been trying to find the article but I can’t find it in my strategicaly sorted stash och reference o.O It said that the engine was already choosen to be the F100. But I found it strange to already decide that so early in the process even though it is in line with wanting a high altitude supremacy fighter. Perhaps this is this was just a missinterpretation of TuAF’s preference for the F100. But why choose the F100 over the already established F110 production line by TEI in Eskisehir? Why not standardize on the F110 for financial benefits on an already strained economy. With the F135 engine blocked the ones left are F100, F110, F4x4, EJ200 and M88. All are contenders and all would need some sort of adaptation/development to fit turkish requirements. Political preference is for a US engine while French products are in a weak position. Technical specification and TuAf’s preference is for F100. Financial preference is for the F110. EJ200 and F4x4 has more potential for future T-38 replacement (Naturaly USAF T-X will be considered). Whatever engine is chosen will decide the final general layout and even future development of TF-X. Therefore Turkey should think realy long and carefully select the engine. There will be a lot of both international and domestic political controversy. All with the aim of getting the better deal respectivly. Ultimatly Turkey might end up with something that is not quite what they were looking for but somehow fits the bill and they will make it work. Just like the ATAK T129.
Hmm did I miss anyones post?
\Dan
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