Tom HMorning Peter
Take this for what it worth….
It is my understanding from Vets that were here at the time and a couple of people that have visited the site.
When the Lincoln crashed it hit and went through the ice, the forward fuselage was essentially destroyed and a LAC was killed, his body not recovered till later by divers.
As you can imagine an aircraft that size hitting at hit speed through thick ice then damage would have been like hiting a cement wall. The nose, I have been told, actually broke away.
So far as I know the nose it is still underwater somewhere in the lake, as are the majority of the wings.
That is the best info I currently have until some of my other contacts return from flying up north.
Tom H
Tom HIf you are in Toronto make an effort to also get to the Toronto Aerospace Museum…they have a lanc resto in progress and a full scale all metal replica of the AVRO Arrow…they are a relativley young museum but well worth the visit.
Tom H
Tom HGood evening Mark
Sorry in taking so long to get back to you I have been in the USA at the Aviation Museums Mutual Concerns Conference, just got back.
I have a couple of very good contacts that have been on site of the Lincoln, they will be back in country in a couple of weeks and I will get their information to you.
I do know from speaking with them over the years that the front section is very very damaged likely not recoverable, mid section of fuse through to the stab has large useable sections, wings are a mystery.
Check with CAPA on current statis but I knoew of no current recovery operations on this one…no noises of one etheir.
As I said earlier, the Lincoln does not have much provedence in Canada, if my research is correct the one in the lake is the only one to come to Canada.
It would be better to see a recovery that aided a restoration in a country where there is great provedence than it is to leave it age.
I’ll see what I can find out, but I need some time.
Tom H
Tom HEvening Mark
Board has asked the location and pics not be released while we are continuing to pursue the aircraft…got burned on another aircraft some time ago when a private purchaser went around us…when the deal is done or we give up I will be happy to.
The aircraft is waaaaay up North and damaged, cannot be flown. Dug a wing in on a landing and sunk. Engines and some other equipment have since been removed. But we have found alternates suitable for initial display.
It is…
1943
Vickers (Quebec) built
Ex-RCAF
About all the detail I can give for the moment.
Tom H
Tom HHopefully this one is saved to fly again!!!
As to Canadians not being interest, not true…we would love to have a CL-44 in Canada and I have been told alot of effort has gone into trying to recover the one in Ecuador.
The problem is dollars.
We are living in a time of limited corporate support and reduced federal government support.
Once you get it you have to support it….more $$$
The financial cycle needs to break over here (and other places).
I will be attending a museums conference in San Diego at the start of April…I’m dying to see how our American neighbors are so successful corporately.
Tom H
Tom HIt’s good to see the history at least getting the coverage!!!
The problem with TV is they are always looking for the fast solution and accuracy takes a hit.
CBC recently did a Docudrama on ferry command and the errors were awful, but at least they told the story.
If we can get people interested with badly done stories imagine how excited they will get with well done ones!!
Tom H
Tom HThanks for the leads…
Thanks to everyone for the DC-6 leads.
With the information I received from a number of sources I was able to put together a presentation to our board and they have granted me permission to pursue the DC-6B we have been offered.
If all the pieces come together it will be a great aquisition! The DC-6 ran for many years from our airport with PWA, Edmonton based WARDAIR used the 6B on it’s original international flights, Canadian Pacific used it on the across the Pacific Flights from Edmonton (Edmonton’s Grant McConachie was president for a time) as well as it’s service on the oil field, DEW line and water bombing operations.
Appreciate the help!!!
Tom H
Tom HI have not heard what the plans are for paint.
To me the Spartan scheme would look good and make alot of sense, but who knows at this point.
Last good info I had was he was down to neededing some fittings and brackets to allow final assembly.
I do appreciate SADSACK’s comments, far too many aircraft today are over restored and do not make an accurate presentation of the type.
While I love beautiful aircraft I do love working birds even more.
Tom H
Tom HThe City of Edmonton Spitfire…Crossroads of the world.
Someday that airplane needs to come home to us, don’t know if it will every happen but I can dream.
As far as viewing, my information is second hand so I can’t vouch for it’s accuracy, I understand Mr. Ens while a nice guy doen’t offer public viewing of his aircraft.
The Mossie is the sister to our Mossie, both are post war production built by Airspeed. From what I have heard Mr. Ens restoration is beautifiul and nearing completion.
The hangar our Museum is in was WEE flight in the 1940’s so that Spit has been on our radar for a long time…as I said we can dream.
Hope that helps a little
Tom H
Tom HGreat response Mark
I appreciate the info
To all that responded on this thread a personal thanks…
Your input and input from other sources has allowed me to rewrite our policy on replicas to an extend and I will be taking it forward to our board in the upcoming week.
Our first priority will always remain with the original aircraft
Second will be select replicas to fill the story of our history, but only if no practical method of salvaging an original is possible. My recommendation will also be that these should be flying replicas where ever possible so we may add a facet to our presentation.
Third will be large scale (1/5th or larger) models to present “special” foot notes in our history that do not have a major part of the story.
(Like the Avro Lincoln which only flew here a few weeks)
Fourth will be scale models to represent larger portions of history that do not necessarily have a direct place in our chapter of history.
(An example would be aircraft that were operated by the Alliies in WW2, but not here and of course the Axis aircraft they operated against)
I think these policies are a good compromise that will allow us to expand our ability to tell our story within our mandate, budget and space restrictions while bringing some new life to the facility.
Would appreciate comments..
And thanks for all you thoughts
Tom H
Tom HThrowing my hat back in the ring…
While I appreciate the fact some don’t like replicas and feel the real thing should be saved I will try and put things in my perspective.
I am the executive director of the Alberta Aviation Museum in Edmonton AB.
Our mandate and collection policy are built on collecting, preserving and Educating on…
1) Edmonton
2) Alberta and the North
3) Canada
4) The rest of the world as it relates to Edmonton
In that order…
Because of our mandate and policy, as well as the fact we do not have room or money to preserve everything from everywhere we concentrate on our history as a chapter of the whole story.
This results in our need to have representation of extinct types ie: the Siskin.
There are others as well….now if I were to follow the anti replica theme we could never tell our whole story…continuing the theme if we were to invest massive time and money in the restoration of a type never used here, not relating to our history then there would be no consistancy in the collectioni and it would only confuse the history.
So how does a museum like ours deal with these realities?
I believe the most important thing is to tell the story of those that came before us, and from this thread and taking information from various other sources I am coming to the conclusion that replicas have their place in the telling of the story.
Thoughts?
Tom H
Tom HJust my thoughts….
The Lincoln was never operated by the RCAF, the one in question was actually an RAF aircraft flying from Edmonton (the hangar that now houses our museum) doing Winter Evaluation testing. We could not undertake the recovery and or restoration at this time and sadly it does not rank high on our aquisition list as it was really a foot note in our history.
That said, as long as the proper channels were followed I think there may be strong support for the parts to be recovered and put to good use on the Austrailian Lincoln.
It would be worth pursuing throught CAPA (Canadian Aircraft Preservation Association) and Heritage Canada (department of the federal government).
From a personal stand point I would recommend it…check the CAPA website for contact info. At least it is the best single contact point to find out if anyone has recovery plans.
Tom H
Tom HThanks everyone for your input…really nice to have an outside point of view.
Jimw
I can’t comment on the accuracy of the info as I have not seen the plans, but the gent involved is a pretty straight shooter.
Cessna152towser
I also appreciate your point of view, but from a collections policy standpoint we have to deal with the fact we need to stick to our aquistitions list.
Sticking with our mandate means there are alot of aircraft that are worth saving, many people love, but don’t fit with our collection. It is not seen as our place to take on restorations and display that do not fit our mandate.
Our size and budget as a non profit means we cannot tell the whole story or save everything…we can only tell our chapter of aviation history.
We already have a couple of very good replicas (reproductions?) on display, types that fit our history but are extinct, but they are non-flying.
To fill our story in history there are others that are extinct (Siskin again comes to mind) that I feel we should look at having as a modified replica that flies, rather than a perfect “static” reproduction.
There is a lot to be said for seeing an aircraft type fly…brings life to the history I feel.
Your thoughts?
Thanks again everyone.
Tom H
Tom HThanks Dave
My interest is going now I’ll have to follow up on the fate of the P-39….I do recall some contreversy around that whole recovery.
Tom H
Tom HThe Western Canadian Aviation Museum is in the process of recovering a Fokker Universal from Lake Winnipeg….been down 70 years.
We are about to embark on a Cat recovery from a lake North of the Arctic circle.
It’s interesting to hear the reference to Gary Larkin…..
A few years ago I read an article on this gang in the Air and Space magazine,
it was titled “Gary and the Pirates”
Seems fitting as he has quite the reputation….
Tom H
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