Great pictures from the HTF open day… I am a big fan of the 146 😀
Interesting to see nothing much has changed at Hatfield in the last year. I was there literally about a year ago and took a few pictures from similar positions. I have an additional picture taken from round the front of the Admin buildings at Hatfield if anyone’s interested.
Bruce, stick with it on the 125… its a very important example and bar the missing engines still looked good when I went there. That one and G-ASSM are the only complete ones I know of being preserved. By the way, what happened to the cockpit of G-AYRA? I saw a photo on a.net that you’d got that but when I visited the museum myself I didnt see it?
With reheat [later marks] and delta wings the Javelin was probably aiming to be more than the Sea Vixen (DH110), given that the latter is a clear larger development of previous the DH twin boom fighter concept, albeit with axial flow engines and highly swept wings, however the Javelin did have a lot of problems and was under continuous development with about 9 marks versus the Vixen’s 2.
The main problems with the Javelin included the fact it was recommended not to roll it (a bit silly for a fighter!), the fact that its thrust output diminished when the reheat was engaged and so its use was restricted to altitudes above 10,000ft. I have read that this was because of insufficient fuel flow, but I think its more likely that a lack of a variable geometry nozzle to relieve the backpressure that is caused by the reheat system was what probably diminished the performance. The T-tail produced a few problems and lastly the thick wing section prevented true supersonic flight. There was a thin-wing supersonic Javelin on the drawing board but that I think was killed off either by the infamous Defence White Paper of 1957 or perhaps because the RAF or MoD had lost faith in Glosters?
I think originally it was only night fighters that had a full proper radar. The appearance both in terms of externally and in terms of what you had internally to interpret what it was “seeing” were very different. However, lots of 1950s fighters like the F-86 and Hunter had a radar ranging gunsight. I think that only detected things within about 1000yards or so. I’m not any kind of electronics expert, but the evolution of radars and associated technology is quite fascinating and I think it came on a pace during the 1960s and 70s, but prior to that, some of the technology wasnt that much more advanced than some of the equipment used back in WWII (for example the radar in the Vulcan bomber was derived from the WWII era H2S set – I know its not a fighter but still, there must have been a reason for that apparent lack of progress?)
I know someone who was working on the scrapping of the Comet 4 and Trident 3 at LGW. Apparently it was necessary to use a JCB as petrol-powered tools such as angle grinders (which are better for cutting off sections you wish to preserve!) were prohibited by a local (airport) bye-law… strange but true!
Thanks. Its not actually open yet (its still being worked on and obviously as you can see from the pics, its needs to be reassembled!)… but if you happen to be around and you see a late 30 something guy working on it… that’ll be Neil. If you have a word with him and mention my name, he’ll probably give you a tour if you’re interested 😀
Foreign material ingestion is the main reason (other than necessary clearance on rotation and landing – given the oleos will compress quite a lot, esp. if its a hard landing).
If you could visualise the airflow into the intakes in a high rpm, low forward speed (i.e. takeoff) condition, then you would see that air is drawn in from many angles and consequently the possibilty for ingesting rubbish is quite high. Add to that the fact that the nose gear may also throw up quite a lot of material and you’ve got a real potential problem.
Hawker Siddeley did some tests on an HS125 (G-ASEC) in the 1960s with bags fitted inside wooden frames mounted on the wing leading edges to ascertain how real the problem was for their forthcoming HS136 design and found that it was very serious indeed so the engines were moved back to the fuselage for the next study, the HS144.
I have been involved in the preservation of an airliner for the last couple of years and am generally interested in historic British Aircraft, have a large collection of books and other materials etc, but I had never even heard of the BAPC until a South African I was discussing the impending destruction of the Cosford aircraft with, mentioned that there was an organisation in this country for aircraft preservation as a whole. It was news to me and took some time for me to locate them on the internet – and when I did find their site, it give the impression like it was not that ‘active’.
Can anyone tell me more about them and what power, influence or funding is available to them and what projects they have been involved with?
A great piece of filming! 😀
I think originally they were going to remove the AICUs but in the eventuality they didnt bother. They are digital computers believe-it-or-not and more successful at their job than other efforts on other supersonic aircraft, but certainly several were sold through the Dovebid auctions as I know someone who bought a couple.
Sorry CN, we have already asked BA for them for G-AWZK at Manchester as we have none!
Providing a hangar in the medium-to-long term, the non-operation of any of the aircraft’s own electrics or hydraulics and the prohibition of movement of the droop-nose except with specific BA permission for cleaning purposes, are all conditions of the aircrafts’ loan to their various museums.
When I was up at Manchester the first time I went to see round BOAC with the then Airfield Manager, I was given a rough figure for the cost of the hangar, and it aint cheap, but then again, its not totally impossible either, so watch and wait, I’d say.
What a load of cobblers.
What on earth do they think will happen? she is going to explode into tiny bits if they power her up electrically.
Not cobblers at all, from what I have heard some problems had previously been identified with the electrics anyway. And if you arent insured for anything that could go wrong H&S wise, then you dont do it – because if it does go wrong and you arent covered, you get sued! Taken at face value, then yes the risk is probably very low, and for a couple of private individuals with a piece of equipment that hasnt been used for some while then I’m sure they’d take their chances and probably be fine, but these isn’t, its a large and well known aircraft in an (almost) public place, so different situation entirely.
Long term there will be a hangar built for it, but I couldnt give you a timescale for that.
My friend Neil (from the Trident Preservation Society) is responsible for the care of G-BOAC. Basically its kept clean inside and out on a regular basis and he also ensures areas such as the gear and tyres are in good condition. The hydraulics will have been depressurised and no-one is allowed to power up the electrics for H&S/insurance reasons. The combination of these also does not permit the droop nose to be lowered, although he may get special permission from BA to free-fall the nose for cleaning purposes (it would then require mechnical assistance to be returned to the up-and-locked position).
Since it moved in there, it has gained a few pieces of museum perspex and cordon but not as many as others. These are of course necessary as wear and tear from people constantly clambering around could cause damage, and occasionally stray fingers could too!! 😀
As far as return to flight goes I would say it was unlikely, this one is the oldest and heaviest and was very close to requiring a significant maintenance check at the time they were all withdrawn. It certainly hasnt done an engine run since being at the AVP.
You may notice both items were withdrawn from ebay before the auctions ended. As to the ownership, I wouldnt like to say, bit of a fuzzy issue as technically when an aircraft is scrapped it becomes the property of the company doing the work in most cases, but then the nose was supposed to be being donated. Someone else has told me the radar probably had to come off due to the location of the horizontal cut, mid way through the radome as you view it from the side, meaning that you “lose” the lower radar mounting positions.