RpR.

Thanks for those two posts, very informative and disheartening to know. However, why aren’t Law Enforcement Agencies (God knows you have enough of them – City, County, State and Federal) more effective in reducing gang and drug crime? Particularly when firearms are involved.–Profiling which works very well to control organized crime and even career criminals, has become so politically incorrect that even a hint of it to solve a crime will bring liberals out demonizing the law enforcement and victims while making criminals, including ones that commit violent felonies victims.
That is why 80 year old persons in wheel chairs and children are strip searched at airports. One MUST examine x number of persons, regardless of zero chance of being a threat to avoid cries of racial or ethnic profiling. This is also why criminals can still get on aircraft unchecked. If they checked only persons that fit the profile for possible trouble, the ACLU and Democratic leaders in Washington would be in all the papers and on the airwaves screaming racial/ethnic profiling, even though race has nothing to do with it, and certain ethnic groups are a serious problem. (As a side note, if you look like a long haired hippy type from the sixties, and cross back in across the border, your car will be stripped down as far as possible. I know this first hand. )
The inmates are running the asylum.

When I speak of gun control, I don’t necessarily mean the abolition of guns in their entirety. Yes, I’ve no doubt whatsoever that there are a lot of what you refer to as goblin v goblin shootings. Gun control will not control or deter the criminal element, that is the job of Law Enforcement. America should no longer be a ghastly parody of the wild west. It is the use of firearms that are legally owned which is in need of control. The latest school shootings have all been carried out with legally owned firearms. The bigger the stick then the greater the opportunity is for greater damage. Restricting the number of weapons held in the home, their type and the amount of ammunition one can legally own would be a significant step toward the reduction of incidents such as Sandy Hook. There has to be a way around the problem that does not require the prying of a weapon from the cold dead fingers of the owner.

Regards,

kev35

This would be a god-send for criminals who are getting more violent.
What happened at any of the shooting you are thinking of is what comes with a free society, and the laws would do zero to affect it, period.
Restricting the amount of ammunition?– Some shooters will go through hundreds of rounds in a day and thousands in a month.
It only takes six rounds to kill six people if the victims are unarmed and cowering on the ground.

The type of ammunition recommended for home defense is the type the liberals like to babble about, as it is designed to kill quickly and effectively. Any one who shoots a criminal and does not intend to kill him is a fool who deserves any misery the failure to do so may bring about.
Number in a home if one had twenty guns no one, without exception can use twenty guns to commit a crime.
Shotguns are the most lethal weapon if these nut-job criminals really want to kill people. Most hand gun rounds will not pass through one door of a vehicle and out the other, shot gun slugs will.
Number six bird-shot at four feet will turn a humans brains into bloody jelly.
All the BS, and it is bull-****, about high powered this and that is just ignorant fear mongering by a biased ignorant press and the politicians whose buttocks they suck fudge out of. There are some truly high powered handguns out there, I have two that can bring down a Water-Buffalo, as gun writer found out by going out and doing it, but these have not been used in crimes, at least not ones that have made the press EVER.

The U.S. is returning to the wild west days partly because the people the government spends more and more time trying to control,
are law abiding citizens.
Laws only affect those who obey them, yet thousands of new laws are being created across the country every few years.
How does this stop criminals from doing anything?

No B-52 was ever shot down by a.a. flak.

Your proof for that?

Below 2,000 feet, small arms were the most serious threat, but US directives limiting most operations to altitudes above 4,500 feet, the maximum effective altitude of small arms fire, limited the effect of these weapons. Other weapons included 14.5mm, 37mm, 57mm, 85mm, and l00mm gun batteries, with effective altitude coverage up to 45,000 feet. The effectiveness of these weapons varied with gun concentration, weather, and the type of attack flown by the aircraft aimed fire, Evasive action by US aircraft limited the effect of most fire encountered by US aircraft was barrage type, where the defenders simply put up a wall of flak in front of the attacking aircraft. The AAA was most effective if the cloud bases were below 8,000 feet, as this allowed the gunners to set the fuzing of the shells more accurately at the same time that aircraft vertical maneuvering was restricted by the clouds.

What were the ‘close in defence systems’? HAWK? No, they were given to the Army and arguably fielded elsewere. You couldn’t hit much with such missiles if the attacker was a guy like the F-111 or Tornado or Su-24, or whetever else under 300-500 meters. Especially if the NIKEs weren’t upgraded and simply, there were obstacles like hills or mountains at the horizon.

The SA-2 weren’t always fired as ‘barrage’. If so, you should explain why the heavy a.a. (also heavily used by VN defences) were NOT successful.

AA took its toll, no doubt, but the missiles were just part of the AA.
There were WWII veterans in the ‘Nam war and they said the flak over N. Vietnam was far, far heavier than anything they ever saw in WWII.

Actually they would have been dealing with the F-106 fighters first, then the Hercules.
The radar system thar worked with the interceptors and missiles in the U.S. was very thorough and could see them coming a LONG ways out.
In a replacement system scenario, if you got one you would probably have gotten the other also.

If Iraq by some freak of nature had had those it becomes a totally, and I mean totally a different scenario than simply Russia and allies snuffing Saddam rather than the U.S. and allies.
Just like had Iraq gone to war with an Iran that was not run by Muslim nut-jobs, Iran would have stomped all over them as they would have had a system as advanced as that used by the U.S. Navy.

Radar would know where they are at all times.

There was an F-106 base a few hundred miles north of me and they were often scrambled for intercept of what turned out to be Cessnas and Pipers that had not filed a flight pattern to be where they were.
The base was part of an airport and not once that I visited were Sixes or what the National Guard was flying not scrambled for some reason.

Well as I said the anti-gang unit was effective and put a serious crimp in their actions in Minneapolis but now Minneapolis is the national center for criminal action against Somali gangs for both prostitution and connections to terrorists overseas.
They also cam here because of the excellent welfare.
Minn. has highest Somali population of any state, despite we have the lowest average temp. of any State South of Alaska.

To be fair to a point, Madison, Wisc. was known among persons who are familiar with the hoods of Chicago as a little Chicago in many ways, it was not till Wisconsin cut off the welfare payroll that they bypassed Madison for Minneapolis and Minnesota’s much better welfare.
It is due to the fact that one of my siblings lives in Madison that I became aware of just how dark the unpublished societies of many cities with populations of less than a million people really are.
As I said, you could tell the “white” folk about this all day long and the bigots would say–“just as I thought”, while the liberals would say ” It cannot be that bad, they just need better welfare.”
The majority simply would not give a damn either way.

My one sibling now works for the Salvation Army, first full time job since the sixties, even though that one has been around pimps and armed felons for decades, that one now says society is going to hell.

RpR.

Sorry for the delay in replying, but seeing as I spent most of yesterday alternatively trying to breathe or clutching my chest, perhaps you’ll forgive my tardiness.

I can’t find figures for ‘goblin versus goblin killings’ either in the US or the UK. By the way, what a quaint way to describe something so horrible, not, of course, that there is any attempt to trivialise such incidents. So if I’m reading you correctly, the influx of armed illegal immigrants from across your Southern border is responsible for much of the gun crime in America? How can anyone say that, after all, the NRA banned any Governmental research into the phenomenon. And if these immigrants are beheading people then at least it’s not adding to the gun crime figures is it? I’m afraid I didn’t quite follow the bit about drug lords etc. Could you expand on that a bit further please?

You talk of your Government being part of the problem. As a democratically elected body, surely the voting population had the opportunity to ensure Obama came second. Yet still he won and gained a second term. Or are you suggesting that democracy is not quite the type of Governance America now requires?

kev35

The War on Drugs is working in a similar manner that prohibition did in the thirties, i.e. gangster killing ganster, drug dealer killing drug dealer.

In Minnesota some years back, Minneapolis had a murder rate that was higher than Chicago. The vast majority were criminal killing criminal.
In abstract and you would have to live here to understand fully how this was working and different from anything before, many of the dead had a last known address of Chicago, Ill.
Where I am at now, a town of less than fifty thousand people at the time, murders were also taking place and last known addresses were mostly Chicago, Ill.
Twenty years before this happened a former Chicago gang leader, had come here and told the City council that what was going on in Chicago was headed to Minn. be ready for it.
He was practically laughed out of town.

In a case of genuine reporting the local newspaper had old timers who remember his coming looked up what they had recorded and wrote an article in the paper saying we were getting just rewards for ignorance and arrogance.

(The special criminal unit that shut down this particular murder spree by cracking down on gang and drug crime, some leaders were prosecuted for doctoring the books to fund their unit as when a Democrat became mayor, he was not stupid enough to appear weak on crime and shut down the unit, he just stopped funding them. Their battle had been very effective and technically if they did not perform at the level they had they would have been let go. Well eventually they could not doctor the books enough to not work for free and the unit was shut down, but —{they were not stealing tax payer’s money they were using the money confiscated from drug criminals to pay for the expenses to operate. }

Of course the good liberal politicians that were and are running Minneapolis used the police officers and examples of cops gone bad when they were really expected to do a job and pay for it themselves while the money they used to get was used to fund welfare for the ever increasing population whose last known addresses were Chicago, Ill.

[on a side, side note; My mother lived in a town sixty miles from Minneapolis and a young lady moved into a house across the street.
She came over once when I was there and asked if it was normal for the Police to bother people.
I asked how long she had lived there and why she was being bothered.
She said it had something to do with too much traffic in and out of her house.
I asked if she was behind on rent or house payment, and she was honest enough to say yes as she had lost her job and was trying to find a new one.
Well I said, it could be because the area–this was an area of a circle approx. one hundred miles in diameter with Minneapolis as the center– was having trouble with gang members from Chicago leaving Chicago and moving into this area.
Well, the conversation was polite, and she finally said she had moved there from Chicago.
She left within a matter of months.])

Now this is just an abstract of what happened a thousand plus miles from the border but due to a former Latino gang member I worked with who had in his past had connection with gangs in the triangle from Puerto Rico to the the West Coast to Chicago I learned that while Latin on Black hatred exceeded anything “white” (as white is most often used) society would believe much less understand but in the Latino community, if you were from the wrong Latino origin , you were THE ENEMY and the movie where manhood is attained by killing an opposing gang member was FACT, not movie fiction.
Down on the border the violence is even greater.

As I said this is an abstract of an abstract, and had I not had the misfortune fortune to become acquainted with some dealing in this atmosphere for reasons not chosen, I would be as ignorant as the average “white” small town boy.

As an aside, during ganster years there was a criminal triangle from Chicago to St. Louis to Minneapolis.
Que sera, sera.

Yes, the scenario S.M. considered simply would not have been as it would meant a totally different Iraq.

The Nike Hercules had a range of minimum 80 miles, and had successfully been tested intercepting ICBMs in the U.S.

Had they had that, they would have had the radar to go with it and then would have been, ala Iran with the F-14s and Phoenix, probably flying refurbished F-106s which could have tied into the Ajax radar system etc., etc..

Still in the long run Iraq would have lost no matter what, if Saddam was acting like Saddam, although the Russian probably unlike Bush would have left all of Iraq a smoking hole in the ground.

Phoenix can’t hit an F-22 and F-22 runs in supersonic circles around F-14 without even use of afterburner,
there is no contest.
F-14/Phoenix was a nice bomber interceptor tho

The F-22s only real advantage is to get in quickly without be seen, too soon any way.

When they went up against German Typhoons in an exercise in Alaska, once in contested airspace, no BVR adavantage, they are just another dogfighter that can be and was technically shot down.

One thing that was mentioned in a magazine years back, probably AW&ST but I am not sure, was the stealth parts of the aircraft are designed for ground radar, if an aircraft is above scanning down on an F-22 is loses some of its advantage.

Here’s an interesting scenario.

Scenario is same as what happened in Persian Gulf War 1991 except for two key scenarios:

1. Instead of USA, we have USSR being the lead coalition partner.

This assumes deployment of high end Soviet units with better equipment (e.g. Su-27P, MiG-23MLD, full spec MiG-29), Su-17M4, Su-24, Su-25)

They also have standard Soviet support in terms of ECM and EW.

They’re operating out of Saudi airbases as well.

No Western aircraft are being used.

2. Iraq is primarily equipped with Western aircraft – F-4D/E (in place of MiG-23), Mirage F1, F-5E/F in place of MiG-21, F-15A/B in place of MiG-25 and F-16C/D Blk 30 in place of MiG-29.

Jaguars replace Su-20/22s.

Also Iraq’s doctrine is assumed to be British, not Soviet, and is assumed to have gone to war in 1980-88 with a Soviet equipped Iran with similar results.

Political situation is same.

Questions

Could the Soviets have managed to suppress Iraqi air defences as effectively as USA?

Would Soviet pilots have been able to manage to obtain air superiority as quickly and as effectively as US ones?

Would Soviet casualty rates have been higher?

If the Soviets had there version of AWACS in place and the the Iraqis has the same lack of one, same results.