hello everyone.
first post but need to ask opinions on the fulcrum and rafale in the indian context.
the Indian air force recently favored Rafale over the Fulcrum
but the Indian navy favored the fulcrum over the Rafale.
my friend and I were talking about it and we both agree that it wouldve been better if both the air force or navy just stuck to one type and both the rafale and fulcrum come in land and navy versions.
but we didn’t agree on which one. my friend prefers the fulcrum because of the importance of indian-russian relations and that the french sells weapons to pakistan and cooperates with china.
i prefer the rafale because its a newer design and should not hurt relations with russia.
what does this forum think. should india have went with rafale and navy rafale, or fulcrum and navy fulcrum? or half half the best after all?
Are you sure that this discussion happened between you and your friends and nor between some kids? :rolleyes:
Anyways some points without getting into detail and last post on this as the thread smells of trolling (?),
1) MiG-29K (9.13) was a up and flying as a combat capable carrier based fighter in 1989, atleast 15 years before Rafale-M became multi-role in 2004-5 (Rafale watchers can correct if there is correction). The current MiG-29K is designed based on the valuable experience gained from that project.
2) MiG-29K was a true multi-role aircraft developed on the basis of MiG-29M and was to form the basis of Russian Navy’s carrier based strike aircraft, where as Su-33 was to handle the air-defence.
3) MiG-29K was to operate from carriers such as Kuznetsov (Pr.1143.5) and Ulyanovsk (Pr.1143.7). The newer Pr.1143.7 was to use STO & CTO for launching its fighters and AEW aircraft and MiG-29K being the designated strike aircraft in the fleet, was designed with catapult launch in consideration. So I do expect the new variant of MiG-29K/KUB also to be CTO capable.
4) MiG-29K was dropped in favor of Su-33 and one of the reason was the weapons meant for strike missions was still in the testing phase and choosing a multi-role platform also meant funding the weapons development to justify the choice. The budget cut and crisis of the time meant dropping the strike component from the carrier deck and retaining just the air defence role, in which the larger Su-33 offered its advantages. i.e MiG-29K also got dropped along with the strike component.
5) But the development carried out on multi-role MiG-29M/K formed the basis of the multi-role packages that started arriving in the 90s, and Sukhoi also benefited from this development.
6) Rafale-M was not even in the scene during 1999-2004 when MiG-29K was considered for the deck operations and it was not probably not even considered.
7) Rafale-M never was an option or a strong contender for the decks of INS Vikramaditya. The fantasy of Rafale-M as the favorite etc etc are lies spread by cheap writers probably due to their own compulsions. .
8) Rafale-M till this very moment have never done a STO from a carrier deck other than the catapult launch and the STO capability of the fighter remains to be seen. Even if it maybe able to take off from the ski jump, the amount of payload it can carry in such operations remains to be seen. Where as MiG-29K/KUB can carry 5,500Kg in STO from carrier deck and 6,500Kg payload when land based and operating from longer runways.
9) Rafale-M cannot fold its wings and have a wingspan of 10.8m. I wonder if the ****holes who promote the theory that MiG-29K was favoured over Rafale-M due to Russian blackmail etc ever considered or knew the size of the elevators that Gorshkov had??
10) Without folding wings, Rafale-M would be a wasting a lot of space on the deck and hanger and the case would hold true for both INS Vikramaditya & INS Vikrant!
To me, Rafale-M is in a sense “more” Russian than Western, as it is more close to MiG-29 with its slow handling and nose pointing abilities and definitely the best of the dog fighters that have come up from the western side. It would be a sight to see the two go against each other in mock close combat. We would be able to see such a mock combat once INS Vikramaditya arrive and if IN & French navies decide to do a 1Vs1. Or after IAF’s Rafale arrive in India and do a Ivs1 with its own MiG-29SMT or with IN’s MiG-29K.
And I’m pretty sure MiG-29s will hold its ground! 🙂
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