Why India chose Rafale. Article by KP Nayar, a former Diplomatic editor of the Indian Express and The Economic Times. Mostly deals with the strategic aspects of why India might have chosen the Rafale.
The author is generously praising the Frenchies, but out of touch in some places….. the negative part to his article is that it looks as if Rafale won due to political & strategic consideration :rolleyes:
And when did this psycho Sarkozy came in to rescue India??….its all thanks to President Jacques Chirac, who have been good all the way to the relation.
Boeing confirms 1.78 billion deal, finalizing the sale of 10 C-17s to IAF
the C-17s will replace the old Il-76s currently in use.
I hope our good man Swamiji spare the Rafale & stop connecting its win to the Italian madam and start concentrating on this >$450million/unit scam tagging our Prime Minister’s Boss from Italy! :diablo:
No Mig-27, Mig-21 or Mirage 2000?
Because single engine aircraft are barred from taking part in fly-past & display because of an earlier accident involving Mirage-2000 during Air Force Day. The brave pilot died in crash.

Wg Cdr Ramesh Bakshi

Spectators view as Mirage 2000 KF-102 explodes after hitting the ground. Wg Cdr Ramesh Bakshi , CO 7 Sqn was killed in the incident. Pic Copyright Arun Sharma
Do you think its painted in Russia still the old ILs? I am sure its Indian paint on it now. When the Yankee paint wears off we will put crappy Indian paint on the C-130 J too, making it black nosed. :p
There is no need for the black paint on the C-130J, if you understand the basic idea behind the scheme. As pointed out earlier by TR1, it is anti-glare paint to prevent the cockpit guys having to cope with the reflection from the nose.
In the case of C-130J, the nose is further down the cockpit (compare the pics above) and in no way the reflection is going to discomfort the crew….but We can paint it in different color if you want to highlight the C-130Js extra ball in the front. 😉
Even if the grey looks nicer on the C-130J, it seems as if the orange in the IAF-cocade is way off !?? 😮
Deino
Yes…it is Indian taxpayers money and these idiots paint with colors they like. :dev2:
The color in Indian Tri-Color is Saffron and not orange and it is a known fact that America really hates the Saffron brigade in India. So maybe….it was a deliberate act???


Well TwB,many PSus have not made any difference for decades now ..
anyway ,
Seems like ADA is having it from allsides..now from the current CNS! 😮
Navy chief says ADA let it down on LCA front
Actually, its their own fault. Too much over confidence!
If you remember during and after the first flight of Tejas….during AeroIndia 2001 there was a range of offering (some serious & some others just to get hold of the balls to squeeze) from Russia & America to jointly develop the Tejas. But we did not take the offer in the glory of the first flight and were confident of pulling it off on our own without outside partners. The result of rejecting that offer is now for everyone to see. If we had taken it and co-developed, Tejas would have been entering IAF service as we speak.
Well here is what happened :
After a recent joint acmi exercise between between the navy and the af which was watched by the respective chiefs:
CNS: The days of our Harriers vs your manouevrable Mig 29s is gone mate! Our Mig 29Ks kicked your guys’ butts! Ha!
After the rafale deal has been announced:
ACM ringing the CNS office : Now what would you say to another joint ex. mate :diablo:
CNS : Okay Okay ..stuff the LCA Navy now..(We want rafale M too!)
🙂
I’m not at all optimistic about Rafale with its low thrust 75kN engine to carry any meaningful load operating from the Indian Navy’s STOBAR carriers. I’m not even sure if Rafale will be able to fly-off from our carriers without a catapult. I can’t be 100% sure in either case and will need to wait for info from the French.
But what I’m clear is that, we need to have the 90+kN thrust variants for Rafale to safely operate it from our STOBAR carriers.
Btw, it would be good to see the Rafale & MiG-29K go against each other. Both good dog-fighters and that too with low-speed. I’d have liked to see some land variants in IAF cleared for 9G because MiG-29K is limited to 8G.
Jokes aside , will the LCA-N be ready before commissioning of the IAC?
I just pray that the ADA guys have the last laugh on all of this!:o
LAC-N to be ready by 2014?
If CSL also mess things up and delay the carrier, then they can compliment each other and enter service together. 😉
I seriously doubt N-LCA will be ready to be inducted by the time IAC enters service and probably the reason why IN chief came out with such a statement.
MiG-29 in PROFESSIONAL grey
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9200/7t4u.jpg
nice grey paint, looks very professional..
which reminds me of some of the sentiment in this thread
grey combat jets
http://russianplanes.net/images/to65000/064536.jpg
They are both the same aircraft! 😉
Edit:
Rii is right.
JangBoGo@. You should have named this thread: Predict the winner:
yes, I’ll change the name..but moderator will need to do it
Super MKI vs
LCA mk2 vs
Rafale follow up!Anyway, a slight correction here, there could just as easy be two winners and only one looser in this game.;)
well….only if the mk2 mess things up again. But the gainer will not be Rafale or Sukhoi. It definitely will & have to be Gripen/NG. Because IAF lacks/will be lacking single-engines multi-role combat aircraft and who-ever gets selected (if Tejas is not going to deliver) is going to hit a gold mine!
F 35/Gripen for the Win 🙂
IMO this is IAFs insurance against a dud Tejas MK2
I’d prefer the Gripen instead of F-35 if a single-engined aircraft is desired….but powered by the new ~95kN RD-33MKM & TVC instead of the sanction prone F-414 :dev2:
They should paint the nose in a different colour.
They usually have that nose painted different for the radar section. This MiG-29 is a trainer version and does not have a radar.
The implication was never that the Typhoon won’t be allowed to submit bids. The implication was that ALL excluded contenders (which includes the Typhoon since it lost to the Rafale) would be allowed to submit new bids for the 80 new jets.
Anyway, I don’t believe there will be any such tender for a long time to come. The IAF will be fully absorbed in first getting the 126 Rafales.
Thanks for the clarification.
I’ll add Typhoon to the list.
It is possible that the additional (follow-on) order is just a speculation. But the fact is, as of today, IAF have evaluated all the aircraft’s performance. i.e the tedious process of performance testing (consuming years) of all the aircraft’s are over and for any follow-on order, only spec, price & offsets negotiation will remain. We can expect that to consume 6-12 months. i.e within next financial year.
If they don’t exercise the follow-on order now, even the Rafale will not be available for the current L1 unit cost in the future.
Oh geez more MiG-29 pron!:eek: Many thanks Kotey.
First question : where on earth is that fairing thingie on the left nacelle??!
maybe something new that we did not see before and hence they don’t want to give much publicity to that stuff?? Or simply because they are not required to be installed now?
Second question : i wonder what 741 and 747 stands for …we know that the K/KUB is 941/947( presumably meaning izdeliye 9.41/9.47) while the MiG-35 demonstrators are 961/ 967( izd. 9.61/9.67), so the Syrian MiG-29 izdeliye code is 7.41/7.47?:confused:
741 & 747 maybe because these aircraft lack some basic hardware compared to the 941/947/961/967…like the lack of refuelling probe which are a standard feature of all the new gen MiG-29???
I’m sorry, but this thread makes no sens..:confused:
The MMRCA Tender are in effect over you know, and Rafale is the winner. That goes for any follow up contract too..
The rest of the game is merely standard proceedure and formalities to make the MMRCA Tender progress as credible and clean as possible.Stop beating around the bush here!:mad:
agree to the part that MMRCA tender is over. But the follow-on order of additional aircraft keeps popping up in the media and that is what its is about.
I haven’t heard so far from any Official source that further 60-80 aircraft are going to be ordered. Lets wait and see. We wont have any confirmation until 126 aircraft deal gets signed anyway. Why would IAF have another tender, when it has already selected the L1? It will only make sense to order more Rafales, possibly let french build more in France to up the procurement rate and HAL manufactures its 108 in about 7-8 years similarly like Su30.
yes, no official word. Only from news articles.
But, the follow-on contract (if it is not Rafale) will not be time consuming like the just concluded MMRCA tender as the performance tests of the platform is already complete for all the MMRCA contestants. So for the additional aircraft the tender will be for price negotiation and offsets… so how much time…. 6-12months? That is the negotiating time being projected for deal to be signed with Dassault.
Lets see IAF has about 200 Mig21 and Mig27 to retire. There is Jaguar as well to follow. While doing so they are going to induct about 100 more MKIs, 40 LCA and 126 MMRCAs. Then there is LCA MK2 and FGFA to follow. I see further 60-80 MMRCA option exercised only if there is some problem with LCA MK2 and FGFA programs.
Good point, but FGFA is around 2018, cost of acquisition increase with every passing year. LCA mk2 is even more riskier
If negotiations fail with L1 vendor, then there will be negotiations with Eurofighter. If Dasault is not able to supply required airframes in given time period, then split order will be placed between EF and Dasault. This is according to Defence procurement manual.
Do you mean splitting 126 between EF and Rafale? That would be a nightmare in terms of cost.
this was posted earlier?
http://en.ria.ru/business/20111229/170548321.html
Russian court orders forced sale of major shipyard’s pledged shares Baltiysky Zavod
16:11 29/12/2011
MOSCOW, December 29 (RIA Novosti)A Moscow commercial court has ordered the sell-off of major naval shipyard Baltiysky Zavod’s stock which had been pledged as a collateral against Russian central bank loans.
The court ruling affects 88.32 percent of the Baltiysky Zavod shipyard’s shares, pledged as security for a 32 billion ruble ($1 billion) loan extended by the central bank to International Industrial Bank, formerly part of United Industrial Corporation owned by Kremlin-connected tycoon Sergei Pugachyov.
The court set the selling price of the foreclosed stock at 220 rubles ($6.80) per share.
The bank lost its banking license last fall, after defaulting on its obligations.
The central bank had previously requested the court to transfer the pledged stock to it in trust as a relief measure, saying the stock was managed inefficiently, which could reduce its price.
In November, the court ordered a market evaluation of the shipyard’s stock, appointing auditor Ernst & Young to conduct it.
The holders of the shares were ZAO Yunior, ZAO TechnikLine, OOO Nano-Stroi, ZAO Inter-Stroi and ZAO Trust Holding.
Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Kozak said in early December that the government would have to form a new company to manage the Baltiysky Zavod plant, which was burdened with a debt of 15 billion rubles.
The yard, which has built over 500 ships since its foundation in 1856, makes ice-breakers, warships and heat exchangers for nuclear power plants.
http://vz.ru/news/2012/1/28/557249.html
Testing of a new engine for the MiG-29K for the Russian Navy. I think this is what BoGo was looking for. 7% increased thrust.
Thanks buddy for the link. But small confusion in their report also…below the translated version
Engine testing began for the fifth-generation MiG-29 k
January 28, 2012, 16:53On Saturday, the State Commission of Defense started bench testing a new engine of the fifth generation fighter aircraft MiG-29 k, General Director of the Petersburg Corporation Klimov Andrey Reus.
The engine is an upgraded version of the aggregation of RD-33, which had elaborated Klimov in 80-ies. Feature of the new engine increased to 7% thrust while maintaining the dimensions and masses. Bench testing is expected to conclude until the autumn, after which the engine will be transferred to JSC “Mig” to conduct flight tests, including an aircraft carrier. In 2013, it is planned to supply the MiG-29 k with a new engine for the RUSSIAN NAVY.
The new engine is planned for production at JSC “Moscow Engineering Enterprise name Chernysheva, passes Interfax.
Work on the engine began in 2004, as part of a contract to supply fighter jets to India. The first flight of fighter aircraft with a new engine was held in 2007, take off from aircraft carrier decks in 2009 year.
JDC-100% specialized subsidiary company OAO OPK “Oboronprom” on management of dvigatelestroitel′nymi assets.
Oboronprom created in 2002 year. The company combines helicopter and dvigatelestroitel′nye enterprises, production systems and complex radio-electronic complexes, as well as other engineering assets. Shareholders is Russia (owns 58.57% stake), Rosoboronexport (4.89%), Republic of Tatarstan (11.89%) and RAC «MiG» (12.57%), Russian (10.93%), rostvertol (0.98%).
If the said 7% increase of thrust is from the old RD-33, then they are talking about the “original” RD-33MK Sea Wasp.
i.e 7% increase in thrust from the older 83kN thrust engine would be 88.8kN.
If the engine for Russian Navy MiG-29K is with a 7% increase in thrust from the “baseline” RD-33MK Sea Wasp, then it is going to be an engine with 95kN thrust! 😎
I hope the news is solid and the next batch of 29 x MiG-29Ks meant for Indian Navy also comes with this new RD-33MK engine.
latest photos of the Vik:
great pics…lots of ice…couple of months more for the sea trials to start.
Picture does not work.
Witcha, do you mean the recent cruise to Syria? Despite reports there was no sighting of MiG-29Ks on the Kuz during the voyage.
Not specifically the recent cruise to Syria. I think he meant we should have made a clause for stationing our crew onboard the Kuznetsov so that Indian MiG-29K pilots could get an on-deck experience of operating off an aircraft carrier till INS Vikramaditya was ready.