JangBoGoIf anyone got anymore pictures of these two models, can you please post it? I could’t find much on these.
JangBoGoThe Tomahawk missile, which is actually not a missile at all but a autonomously piloted aircraft powered by a turbofan engine, costs one million dollars a piece. It was originally designed in the cold war to carry a nuke into russia, and for that use I can see it as expendable. But now to use this missile for tactical strikes in regional conflicts, I cant really understand how it has not been modified to be recoverable since these engagements can last a long period of time. It would be easy to make it recoverable both in land and sea.
A CAV existed/exist in such a profile….where the Pilot is strapped on to the rocket and carries the warload, uses it and finally lands with dragchute. Its called the MiG-21. 😀
A few things like slicing off the main wings, tailfin, addition of two control surfaces, removal of the Pilot etc….the MiG-21 is almost a Yakhot/Brahmos in profile.
JangBoGoSeems like IN will get two SSNs including the Nerpa..
http://indrus.in/articles/2011/03/28/indian_navy_grows_stronger_12335.html#
IF i’m not wrong there was an article on MDB Cast that talked about India leasing upto 5 units of the Akula class.
btw, it would be better if India licence produce the Akulas if the IN is planning to get even more than 1-2 Akulas. Hope atleast this time around IN will take proper timely decision rather than pondering. It will help in having a proven design as the SSN.
JangBoGoEh? Leaving aside that not every boiler problem on a civilian vessel is going to be worthy of media coverage, what does it have to do with this?
I thought you were saying that boilers designs as such is problametic. Normally all naval/marine units have much more factor of safety then their land-based cousins due to the condition in which they have to operate.
Now that the misunderstanding is cleared, can you tell me the specific problem of the boilers on the Kuzentsov?
Pr.965 Sovremenny class also uses almost the same boilers. How may problem have you come across in that ships? PLAN uses 4 ships with the same, any details regarding the problem the boilers have creatd for their ships?
I think your thought is freezed around an earlier incident in the early 90s with a boiler room explosion of the Gorshkov and hence such a highly cautious stance?
Basically problems arise when it is not maintained properly and due to careless operation (operating outside of the discipline). Few members already mentioned about this aspect in their earlier posts.
I doubt either of us is going to get access to any confirmed, confidential documents regarding the exact price negotiations and subsequent revisions, so this is good enough for me. My original point for stating the above still holds, that being that the Indian Navy purchased all necessary technical documentation so that they could repair and overhaul the Vikramaditya in Indian shipyards.
My dear boy….. I am not at all disputing the fact that we got the design/technical documentation. What I am disputing is the amount mentioned in the article which is neither from the Shipyad or the Design bureau. Rather it is from an open loose media citing an unnamed official which have now become a seasoned reporting tactics for many media for “exclusivity”. Atleast I’ve not yet seen such a cost figure from either the shipyard or the Design bureau. If you can guide me to any link to these two entities, I would be thankful.
JangBoGoLike I said, I read it. It only outright confirms the manufacture of one new boiler which is being used as a test platform for training Indian sailors. The others may very well just be repaired/modernised.
Can you please explain your interpretation of the following from the link I posted…
1)
«A contract for the production of nine marine boilers Baltiysky Zavod JSC has concluded with FSUE «North Machinebuilding Plant» in June 2004.
2)
The contract price amounts to approximate USD 20 mio.»,
3)
The first boiler for the Indian aircraft carrier was manufactured in May 2005. It is assembled on the test bench and is used as a simulator. The crew has an opportunity to get practical training as regards repairs and maintenance. Later the boiler will be sent to India and subsequently installed in the crew training facility.
4)
The rest eight boilers will be installed on board the warship, which is modernized by FSUE «North Machinebuilding Plant», Severodvinsk.
5)
Baltiysky Zavod has modernized boilers type КVG-3 – КVG-ЗD. Now they operate on diesel fuel instead of black oil.
6)
Owing to this modernization power plant performance increased.
JangBoGoWhat would the most likely plant be if they dont go with nuclear power? All deisel with a small steam plant for the cats? CODAG? All gas turbines?
I hope you asked that due to the concern of the CATS oparation.
If the carrrier is not N-powerd, then probably the only option for the carrier to be a CATOBAR is to have 1-2 high capacity boilers to generate steam for the cats. But steam CATS are making way out for the EM cats, so newer non-Nuclear carier will not need the steam generators.
As for the propulsion itself, all diesel is highly unlikely unless the carrier is meant as a cargo ship ;). Diesels simply can’t produce that sprint that a gas turbines can impart a ship. So most likely it maybe CODAG..
JangBoGoAt the outset it was a numbers game.Its not now.
Now the IAF wants..
1.Platform capability
2.ToT and offsets.And which of the contestants are inferior to the Mig 21?:rolleyes:
IAF already completed the 1st part, Now its for the 2nd part to complete.
w.r.t to my post. I was mentioning about the F-18E/F which as a FIGHTER is inferior to the model it is replacing in both air-combat (probably) and in range. No other aircraft in the competition have this kind of “advancement” in their profile. :p If ther is any a/c that we should be looking in the American backet, then it should be nothing less than the F-35 rather than the F-18. JMT
If it is to replace the MiG-21 (as you say), which also means gap-filling due to lack of Tejas, then the IAF should not even be wasting so much of time for the process. They should rather have put theit precious time negotiating the best price package & ToT for the Gripen….. and number plate the Tejas LCA programe.
JangBoGoYou seem to be confusing two separate issues, i.e. (1) the well-known & extensively reported problems with the original propellers, leading to her having to have inferior old propellers fitted until replacements could be made (the new props were fitted at the first major scheduled refit, increasing top speed by 2 knots), & (2) whether or not she has enough power.
No i did not. That is why I wrote those two in seperate para..
In the 1st I said, I was not aware that the propeller problem was so much deep. It means the problem lies in the very basic of a manufacturing process starting from metallurgy. And that is a very serious & deep problem seeing how air got trapped during the process…
In the 2nd, I was mentioning about the CDG limited top speed. And my understanding to the limitations is that, since CDG is using the small capacity N-plant from the submarines, It may not have the capacity to produce the required amount of cc of steam required for the steam turbines and the steam catpults (accumulators). CDG maybe able to keep a max speed in transit as the steam generated can be fully utilised for the propulsion units. But the problem may arise when air-operations start as it will require steam for the CATS also and hence a possible diversion/partition of the steam from the propulsion unit. This may/will limit the max speed…
JangBoGoWhatever teething problems the Indians had, I’m talking about the Russian Army’s T-90As, not India’s T-90S.
OK. But I was saying that no matter what Generation or latest Generation the French Catherine TI is, it is only good for cold climates and was utterly useless in India. Probably only the old Russian TI installed in the initial batch of the T-90 was operational in the Indian deserts where as new 3rd Generation on the later on batches was a disaster. What makes me wonder is why no inquiry was initiated into the French TI deal and how they selected it for the tanks in the first place, they should have looked into Isreali or any other area. The price was also staggering. The T-90 cost Rs.10-12 crore (Rs.100million-120million) in which the French contribution with their 3rd Generation non-working TI was Rs.2crore. 😮
Nocturn is the last indigneous Russian TI sight I’ve heard of – as I said, it was adapted to the Mi-24PN’s ‘Zarevo’. Its still inferior to Catherine-FC and Catherine-XP.
what about the helo helmets, we did see some display of 3rd genaration of NV googles, though I cannot remeber the names. NV also uses TI, so why can’t their pods using what they developed for the NV googles. Did I miss something?
Unfortunately those efforts haven’t borne fruit in any significant fashion. IMO, if Russian industry cannot supply something to meet the military’s requirements, then the military should shop elsewhere until industry can.
Yes agree, but still its better to invest in developing indigenous stuff as that will create a base for the future. Its a long term investment whose benefits may not come in the short period but will do good for the future.
JangBoGoPhotos from Rostvertol,:
The 34th serial Mi-28N completed its first flight on April 8th of this year. Rostvertol also manufactured 7 pre-serial and 2 prototype Mi-28Ns.
Looks like the rotors are from composites…Which helo rotors are they??
JangBoGo….
In this picture the JF-17 forward section almost looks like LCA in profile. The canopy though differs much…
Beautiful a/c and probably the only succesor to the MiG-21s that is now operational. Unfortunately the other a/c that was to succeed the MiG-21 in the IAF is much delayed due to ever changing goalposts and poor management.
JangBoGoOk, now that we are all guessing what units the RuNavy will get by 2020, I thought I’d share my list. Critisism is welcome. I think guessing for 2020 is too difficult, given changes in previous gosplans before they were up, lack of clarity in future financial situation, shipbuilding, whatever. I agree with Snake that by a few years situation will clear up considerably. So, this is my list for pre-2016, to compensate for “through 2015” construction timeframe. Ships listed are either have their flags raised or are fitting out/finishing. Question mark implies some doubt if the ship will be ready in time.
Submarines
-Yuri Dolgorukii (955)
-Alexander NEvsky (955A)
-Vladimir Monomakh (955A)
-Svyatitel Nikolay (955U) ????-Severdovinsk (885)
-Kazan (885M)-Sankt Peterburg (677)
-Kronshdadt (677)
-Sevastopol (677)
-Petrazavodsk (677)-Novorosiisk (636)
-Black Sea 636 # 2 (636)
-Black Sea 636 # 3 (636)Surface Assets
-Admiral Gorshkov (22350)
-Admiral Kasatonov (22350)
-Admiral # 3 (22350) ????-Admiral Grigorovich (11356M)
-Black Sea 11356M #2 (11356M)
-Black Sea 11356M #3 911356M)-Yaroslav Mudryy (1154)
-Dagestan (1161M)
-Steregushy (20380)
-Soobrazitelny (20380M)
-Boiky (20380M)
-Stoiky (20380M)
-Sovershenny (20380M)
-Provorny (20385/2)
-20385/2 # 2 ?????-Astrahane (21630)
-Makhachkala (21630)
-Kaspisk (21360)-Gryad Sviazhsk (21361)
-#2 (21361)
-#3 (21361)
-#4 (21361) ????
-#5 (21361) ????-Ivan Gren (11711)
Think that is about it….
Great work. Now like a good Boy search for more and keep us all updated. 🙂
But only one Gepard class…they don’t plan any further?
JangBoGo– During the night of 9 November 2000, in the Western Atlantic while en route toward Norfolk, Virginia, the port propeller broke and the ship had to return to Toulon to replace the faulty unit. The investigations that followed showed similar structural faults in the other propeller and in the spare propellers: bubbles in the one-piece copper-aluminium alloy propellers near the centre. The fault was blamed on the supplier, Atlantic Industries, which had already gone bankrupt. To make matters worse, all documents relating to the design and fabrication of the propellers had been lost in a fire. As a temporary solution, the less advanced spare propellers of Clemenceau and Foch were used, limiting the maximum speed to 24 knots (44 km/h) instead of the contractual 27 knots (50 km/h).
– The carrier was due to enter service in December 2000, but, following the breakage of a propeller blade during long-distance trials, this was delayed to April 2001. Charles de Gaulle went back to sea with two older propellers and sailed 25.2 knots (47 km/h) on her trials.
I never thought the propeller problem was that deep and serious and it just fell off due to shoddy fitment.
But are you sure that the CDG have got its speed limited due to the older propeller? What I heard was that it is due to the smaller capacity N-reactor used for submarines. Basically the smaller reactir dont have the capacity for enough steam to run the turbines and for the steam catpults.
JangBoGoHave you seen the figures how much of the previous plan was actually built?:cool: Let’s have a look just at Borei. The three currently in building/working up are produced with significant input of Soviet-time left overs. They have not laid down the fourth unit yet. And you seriosuly consider they will have eight in next eight years? Come oooon..
Yes buddy, but lets be optimistic for the decade ahead. The last plans were for last decade and we know how the funds were then. Now some big-budgets have been announced and lets hope it will allow them to complete their plans.
JangBoGoFound this article only today during a search….some specific data is there..
http://www.bz.ru/en/news*3,27.html
The press release 15 May 2006 года,
Baltiysky Zavod produced boilers for the Indian aircraft carrierBaltiysky Zavod JSC fulfilled one of the largest machinebuilding contracts – a series of main marine boilers. These items were produced for the Indian aircraft carrier «Vikramaditya» (former «Admiral Gorshkov»).
«A contract for the production of nine marine boilers Baltiysky Zavod JSC has concluded with FSUE «North Machinebuilding Plant» in June 2004. The contract price amounts to approximate USD 20 mio.», – said Oleg Kostikov, Director of Economy of Baltiysky Zavod. «During 2006 our company will gain about USD 22 mio in connection with the machinebuilding contracts. Prediction for 2007 – no less than USD 25 mio», – added Oleg Kostikov.
The first boiler for the Indian aircraft carrier was manufactured in May 2005. It is assembled on the test bench and is used as a simulator. The crew has an opportunity to get practical training as regards repairs and maintenance. Later the boiler will be sent to India and subsequently installed in the crew training facility. The rest eight boilers will be installed on board the warship, which is modernized by FSUE «North Machinebuilding Plant», Severodvinsk.
Baltiysky Zavod has modernized boilers type КVG-3 – КVG-ЗD. Now they operate on diesel fuel instead of black oil. Owing to this modernization power plant performance increased. Boiler piping is produced from special corrosion-resistant steel, providing durability of equipment.
On the customer’s request Baltiysky Zavod used environmentally friendly asbestosfree insulation in the manufacture of marine boilers. A new insulation (mineral fiber) is ecologically harmless material.
Reference
Today Baltiysky Zavod JSC is under a Joint Industrial Corporation umbrella. It is a leader in the North-West Region of Russia in production of marine and power equipment.
Machinebuilding shops of Baltiysky Zavod manufacture a wide range of machinery: propellers and propeller shafts, marine and industrial pipeline fittings, exhaust-gas boilers, steam separators, marine boilers, boiler units, stern tubes, steering gears, heat exchangers, etc.
Main customers of Baltiysky Zavod JSC are the leading domestic and foreign companies.
To the list of news
1) contract for the production of nine marine boilers Baltiysky Zavod JSC was concluded with FSUE «North Machinebuilding Plant» in June 2004
2) contract price amounts to approximate USD 20 million
3) The new boiler designation is КVG-ЗD, using diesel as fuel
4) The first boiler for the Indian aircraft carrier was manufactured in May 2005. It is assembled on the test bench and is used as a simulator.
5) The crew has an opportunity to get practical training as regards repairs and maintenance. Later the boiler will be sent to India and subsequently installed in the crew training facility.
6) The rest eight boilers will be installed on board the warship
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