It’s not really new. As far as I know, the major difference between 636 and 636.3 is in its armament (Club-S/Kalibr-PL).

Also, I understand that NATO designation for project 636 is “Improved Kilo”, while “Kilo” designates project 877. So, technically, they are two different classes.

Naturally, there are some differences form one batch to another, even in the same project.

Indian, Chinese kilos already have those…

how did the designation even come. I’m talking about the project-06363. Its a further development of Kilo with seemingly considerable difference from the older 636.

See batch difference will be there. But a a batch difference does not come to a completely new hull profile. If that is a batch difference, then I’d consider that as a completely new “batch”.

Improved Kilo class belongs to 3rd generation.

but the 06363 is not the improved Kilo, but will be an “improved”-improved kilo.

Also, it’s basically an export oriented version. Current plans to purchase some 636.3s for the Black Sea Fleet came to being because of problems with Lada class.

see my reply to TR1…

Unlikely.

a lower crew can be achieved by eliminating the extras with automation. Moreover, it is also possible that the 06363 is a “lada inside” with a new larger hull. see abobe reply to TR1.

What increased volume?

yes, didn’t you notice it before? Try it again with the sectional drawing and you will be able to see it as well. If not I’ll try to post a comparison when time permits.

So what you are saying, is by installing a bigger propeller, you are increasing the performance? So why to install a small propeller in the first place?

I’m sorry if my questions sound stupid – I’m genuinely don’t get the logic.

are you seriously trying to prove that you have not seen the propeller of a kilo class?? The 877 had a 6-blade propeller with smaller diameter where as the succeeding Kilos 636 got the newer 7-blade propeller with a larger diameter. And I believe these propellers had their origins in the propellers of the Pr971..

to the question of why, i’ll reply in a different way…

I don’t know which part of the world you live in. But the part of the globe where I live every household have ceiling fan. Now more lower consumption fans (50W) are available with 3-4-5 leafs. So lets try some simple example (do it yourself kit, I’d say).

Since air like water is a fluid, but of much lower density, we’ll be able to understand the basics.

Take two 50w fans (4 leaf/blade). One with a smaller blade and another with a larger diameter blade. Now operate it only at a lower speed and see for yourself if the smaller diameter blade or the larger diameter blade is giving you more air-flow.

my understanding is that the larger blade will be giving you more. And what about the meter reading??…..naturally the consumption will be 50w/h (or the time used) but the more efficient of the two will be the one with a larger diameter one.

Are you serious? SSBN and SSK share the same propeller?

To a propeller it does not matter from where the shaft it is connected to is getting its power. Can you tell me the difference between the propellers of the French N-powered Rubis class & the diesel-electric Scorpene class??

Kilo can’t accommodate any VLS silos without major redesign. Klub-S system missiles are already on the 636.3 – no need for a VLS.

Rubin have already designed a VLS for the lada class and hopefully they might be having one for the Kilos as well. Maybe we’ll see it on the Vietnamese kilos..

636.3 have been exported for some time now, and 636 around the world have been upgraded to 636.3 standard. But that’s only because there are delays with LadaAmur and relatively low costs (in comparison to western SSKs).

so are you telling that there won’t be any change from the older 636?

As I said before, probably the only reason for building Kilos for the Black Sea Fleet is the delays and misfortunes of the Lada class. As soon as Lada will get through all the needed trials and improvements, 636 production for the Russian Navy will be discontinued, and 677 will be produced instead and, eventually, replace existing 877s and 636s. Project 636.3 will not be the next standard Russian SSK.

see my reply to TR1. I don’t see much of a future for lada in RuN. Not because it being a bad submarine, but basically because RuN will most likely go for the larger double-hulled 06363. I see all the possiblity of lada getting sidelined and basically only for export.

Production of the Lada class has been on hold because of the problems that were discovered during the trials (and probably also because of the insufficient funding in previous years). Now there is, it seems, a great effort going on to assure its readiness for the induction into the Russian Navy.

There should not be any double that lada will come out with all problems fixed. But its chances of being the next standard conventional submarine of a Navy who is so used to larger double-hulled submarine looks dim.

I have seen some insiders from Vietnam claimed that the Kilo that will be built for Vietnam could be fitted with AIP fuel cells.

Yes it could be true.

The 6 submarine is for $1.8 billion where as the total cost is around $3.6billion and it mentions the additional amount is for setting up the entire support needed for the submarines. And considering the cost involved, the AIP coastal facilities looks to be among them!

They also said that there is a strong possibility that the last 2/4 of the Kilo that Vietnam ordered could be fitted with VLS.
But it’s just claim so far ;

VLS module is not something that cannot be installed and Rubin definetely would have worked on it. Rubin have a VLS for the lada class with an impressive just 2 minutes 😮 for firing the entire volume of 10 missiles. Even a tailing submarine (~3km) won’t have its torpedoes reach the submarines before the entire volume have been fired. Vietnam could be the first customer that we may see.

Now, considering the 6 Vietnamese submarine and the 3 project-06363 submarines for Russia i feel that Vietnam & Russia may have ordered the same submarine. It is also possible that Russia gave a follow-on order to the submarines that is being built for Vietnam. If that is that case, Vietnamese submarines could also be of the project-06363 class.

I was under the impression it was an emergency reaction to the inevitability of the BSF almost disappearing due to age, and for the sake of timely introduction, was an up-to-date 636.

It is natural to think like that at the first look. But when I observed the plate, I first thought they did a mistake by engraving a Lada/amur class instead of the Kilo 636 on it. But soon it became clear that it was a brand new Kilo class. A natural progression. 🙂

Since last time I’d to leave in between and completed the post in a hurry, I couldn’t include all that I wanted to. So I’m modifying the original post. Hope noone would mind.

Now the only question is will the Russian Govt at least provide the required funds to built enough of these submarines.

JangBoGo, I am not engaged in drawings of submarines. Here it is possible talk to people which can to help you:

http://paralay.iboards.ru/viewtopic.php?p=126982#p126982

http://forums.airbase.ru/2011/03/t64596,71–chertezhi-podvodnykh-lodok-2.7095.html

Thanks buddy for your effort & help! 🙂