by 2020 there will be lot less Nato countries. Turkey will implode as Arabs cant support its economics for that long when wars are permanent and internal population increasing. Norway will have used it Oil fund. and will not be able to fly its F-35. Canada airforce will belong to Museum. Russia will be uncontested in Arctic.
Rafale ane Eurofighter line will be on verge of closing. not there any engine upgrades in line up. do they make anything in Finland?

1. There be more NATO countries.

2. You don’t have any evidence to back up claim that Norway doesn’t have money to fly F-35’s.

3. Canada’s air force belongs to museum? When they finally make the right decision to buy F-35 it will be decades ahead of anything Russian have.

4. Yes, Finland will be manufacturing parts for the aircraft what are going to purchased.

Russia is in a very bad state and that’s why Putin is trying to do his best to distract people at home. Daily reminder that most Russian fanboys do not even live there… enough said.

Will be extremely interesting to follow Finlands choice, will they go for something like 25-30 F35 at one airbase and little goodwill with Uncle Sam, or 40 gripens at 3 basis + AEW, MPA & a tanker or two? Given the budget, number of bases and number of trainers I think that even 25-30 F35 would be extremely optimistic.

Budget is between 6-10 billion and when Finland buys F-35’s the A model is probably one of the cheapest fighters country can buy (80-100 million). Eurocanards are only getting more expensive and air force personnel are heavily against purchasing two different fighters since it increases cost of training, etc. Some politicians are saying that Finland should buy to different fighters or only Gripen but our air force leadership clearly disagrees.

No doubt even in 2025 F-35 will still be a rather expensive a/c; however I think the price will come down quite a lot compared to where it is today. The other important factor to consider in the “bang for the bucks” is not just the “bucks” but the “bang”. If they can afford the “right” number of F-35 then it can stand on it’s own without any further support. However if they go for Gripen, then, looking post 2030, I think more is needed; more fighter jets, but also other equipment.

To be a credible deterrent I think Finland could do the following:

1. Enter a defence alliance with Sweden
2. Buy 50-60 Gripen E
3. Together with Sweden buy and jointly operate 4 Erieye ER
4. Together with Sweden develop, buy and jointly operate 12 (?) Gripen G; a Gripen “Growler” platform
5. Together with Sweden operate a few tankers

If they go for F-35, they could probably drop the Gripen G (which would be quite expensive) and perhaps also drop the Erieyes, and still have a credible deterrent. Which one is cheaper?

Of course the best deterrent would be to enter NATO; then it does not really matter what they buy, Gripen or F-35 (or the SH).

But a Swedish-Finnish defence alliance could also offer some deterrent, with 110-120 Gripen E; 4 Erieyes, a few “Growlers”, and a tiny tanker fleet.

Finland is currently looking across the pond so to speak. Finnish come the news about F-15’s visiting Finland for training (it come as a surprise to most parliament members) and yesterday it was revealed that 20 or so Strykers are going to visit Finland in next summer… these visits from US military are a clear messages to our eastern neighbor.

Apparently our military leaders don’t trust European cooperation very much.

CASC CH-5
[ATTACH=CONFIG]241799[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]241800[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]241801[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]241802[/ATTACH]

on the other hand, the west has been bombing ISIS (or, at least they say so) for over a year… and ISIS continuously moved forward and expanded its territory…

When one looks at the bombing campaign against Serbia almost 20 years ago, it was a completely different intensity. Was NATO weakened during that period? or do we read about a few strikes aimed mainly at giving the impression of a fight while in reality the main goal is to let ISIS completely destabilize the middle east (the russian action being, obviously, undesirable as they seem to really do something down there against pretty much anyone fighting against Assad who, like it ir not, is still the legal president of Syria)

Assad and his supporters shouldn’t complain since Assad is president only because his papa overtook the country by force.

It’s good that you don’t. At least you can concentrate on the contents of the message, not the messenger himself.

Most of the die-hard F-35 fanboys here are able to dismiss a claim based purely on the author’s name.. regardless of how many times his claims have been proven right.. but at the same time want to sell us Code One, which is LM’s paid and owned propaganda leaflet, as a source of objective information.

According to Pierre fighters with too many electronic systems are bad… if Mr. Sprey correct then the logical conclusion is that Rafale sucks.

Saudi “Wing Loong” UCAV was spotted flying over Sana’a.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]241613[/ATTACH]