ajay_ijnUS orders GE to stop operationalising gas turbines on Shivalik Frigates
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/new-indian-stealth-warship-halted-by-us-barge/351062/
If the United States ranks near the bottom amongst India’s defence suppliers, Washington’s penchant for imposing sanctions and restrictions has much to do with it. Now, the US appears to have shot itself in the foot again. The Indian Navy chose to power its indigenously designed, cutting-edge stealth warship, the INS Shivalik, with gas turbines from American company General Electric (GE). But even as the Shivalik readies for sea trials, the US State Department has ordered GE to stop all work on the turbines it has supplied.
Vice Admiral HS Malhi (Retired), chairman and managing director of Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL), which built the Shivalik, has confirmed to Business Standard that GE has received instructions to stop operationalising (making ready for operations) the two new LM 2500 gas turbines that it supplied for the Shivalik. GE has told MDL that there could be up to three months delay, while the new US administration reviews its military relations with several countries. India is not alone in facing this ban; GE has been told to stop work even with close US allies like the UK and Australia.
MDL has clearly been taken by surprise. Says Admiral Malhi, “It is quite surprising that such a letter has been received from GE. They said the (US) State Department could take up to 3-4 months to re-look at relations with these countries. We don’t have that kind of time; we have to deliver the ship to the navy.”
The Shivalik stealth frigate is powered by four engines, in what is termed a CODOG (COmbined Diesel Or Gas) arrangement. Normal operations are powered by two Pielstick diesel engines, supplied by France. The gas turbines kick in for short bursts during combat, when extra power is needed. They are less fuel-efficient than diesel engines, but provide high performance. This is the first time that US turbines have been installed in an Indian-built frigate.
MDL is now exploring whether it can use another GE subsidiary to operationalise the Shivalik’s turbines, without invalidating GE’s warranty. According to Admiral Malhi, “If GE allows us to use one of its licensees, the delay can be cut down to a month. GE is not averse to that, as long as no American person is involved in the work.”
GE has not responded to an email, asking for details of this delay. The US State Department has also ignored a request for information. A spokesperson of the US Embassy in New Delhi has sidestepped the question, replying by email that, “The State Department has not instructed GE in the conduct of this direct commercial sale. Aspects of this sale were subject to export licensing, which is conducted through the State Department.”
When asked to comment specifically on blanket orders from the State Department to GE regarding commercial defence dealings with India, the US Embassy did not respond.
Recent Indian frigates were powered by Russian turbines. But GE’s LM 2500 gas turbines were chosen for three Project 17 frigates (of which INS Shivalik is the first) because of their better reliability. More than one thousand LM 2500 turbines power more than 400 warships in 30 navies across the world. In addition, the LM 2500 is used for power generation in luxury cruise liners like the QE II.
US defence industry sources indicate that GE is upset by the State Department’s directives, which clearly damage GE’s commercial interests. The ban, suggest sources, was imposed by an “over-enthusiastic State Department bureaucrat”, keen to display that the Obama administration was on the ball from the beginning. But in India, the ban is already generating talk of an unwise choice in going for a US engine.
these are exactly one of things which India hates while buying any US weapon system . its a gr8 start for Obama govt to build closer military relations with India.
ajay_ijneven 50 to 60 million price is gr8 for flanker considering Gripen itself would 40 to 50 million but ofcourse its the operating costs is where flanker would eat up lot of resources and one of the main reason why MMRCA is going on. while comparing Mig-29 with Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon, they would consider entire life cycle costs instead of just unit cost and ofcoz past reputation of maintainence, operational readiness of aircraft like Mirage 2000, Mig-29 would also influence the decision.
ajay_ijneven 50 to 60 million price is gr8 for flanker considering Gripen itself would 40 to 50 million but ofcourse its the operating costs is where flanker would eat up lot of resources and one of the main reason why MMRCA is going on. while comparing Mig-29 with Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon, they would consider entire life cycle costs instead of just unit cost and ofcoz past reputation of maintainence, operational readiness of aircraft like Mirage 2000, Mig-29 would also influence the decision.
ajay_ijnThat I don’t know. Depends on whether there will be more tranches (which I would currently consider unlikely). T3 has to be signed off this year already, which probably would be too early for India to have influence on. If there’s going to be an MLU, they could possibly influence that.
may be India would choose its own version Tranche IN. but considering that IAF needs birds quickly, they might just order Tranche 2. BTW will RAF possibly loan Eurofighters to IAF if selected, just to fasten the induction pace.
ajay_ijnThat I don’t know. Depends on whether there will be more tranches (which I would currently consider unlikely). T3 has to be signed off this year already, which probably would be too early for India to have influence on. If there’s going to be an MLU, they could possibly influence that.
may be India would choose its own version Tranche IN. but considering that IAF needs birds quickly, they might just order Tranche 2. BTW will RAF possibly loan Eurofighters to IAF if selected, just to fasten the induction pace.
ajay_ijnEurofighter Typhoon with EL/M-2052 (or CAESAR) and thrust vectoring version of EJ-200 will be the best choice for MRCA. It incorporates the latest technologies in terms of design, aerodynamics, engine and weapons. If possible, we should go for couple of EA-18G as well, for say around 25. They have pretty descent EA and EW capabilities. Eurofighter and SU-30 MKI backed by EA-18G and Phalcon will be unmatchable in Asia and IOR.
we cannot conisder edge in modern technologies to be only major requirement.
1. maintainence, logistics
2. performance, avionics
3. weapons package
4. politics
ajay_ijnEurofighter Typhoon with EL/M-2052 (or CAESAR) and thrust vectoring version of EJ-200 will be the best choice for MRCA. It incorporates the latest technologies in terms of design, aerodynamics, engine and weapons. If possible, we should go for couple of EA-18G as well, for say around 25. They have pretty descent EA and EW capabilities. Eurofighter and SU-30 MKI backed by EA-18G and Phalcon will be unmatchable in Asia and IOR.
we cannot conisder edge in modern technologies to be only major requirement.
1. maintainence, logistics
2. performance, avionics
3. weapons package
4. politics
ajay_ijnguyz does anyone have figures for Su-30MKIs weapon config/combat radius. the only info knows is its unrefuelled range is 3000km without drop tanks, but not sure if its with external armaments or clean. does anyone figures of combat radius with external load for specific missions like CAP, SEAD, precision strike etc
I am also searching for similar figures for Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen and
F-16E/F. I tried to search in google, but unable get the results. could anyone help me with keywords or provide links.
also i have doubt on F-16C/D. Its max external load is mentioned as 9.2 tonnes. but the figures of empty weight (8.5 tonnes), internal fuel (3.2 tonnes) and external load don’t add up MTOW (19.2 tonnes).
ajay_ijnguyz does anyone have figures for Su-30MKIs weapon config/combat radius. the only info knows is its unrefuelled range is 3000km without drop tanks, but not sure if its with external armaments or clean. does anyone figures of combat radius with external load for specific missions like CAP, SEAD, precision strike etc
I am also searching for similar figures for Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen and
F-16E/F. I tried to search in google, but unable get the results. could anyone help me with keywords or provide links.
also i have doubt on F-16C/D. Its max external load is mentioned as 9.2 tonnes. but the figures of empty weight (8.5 tonnes), internal fuel (3.2 tonnes) and external load don’t add up MTOW (19.2 tonnes).
ajay_ijnSorry, I have to disagreed on a couple of points. Especially, in Europe as it was a Allied Victory with many Nations contributing! Also, nobody is playing down Russia’s very important role in the conflict. As a matter of fact Russian People had the highest causality of any nation! Yet, some would like us to believe that 90% of the conflict was on the Eastern Front. Remember, the campaigns in North Africa, Italy, and France. Plus, lets also not forget the Naval and Air Campaigns of the West. Really, you could say the Russian Army tied down large numbers of troops in the East and the Western Allies tied down large numbers of Naval, Air Forces, and Elite Army Units in the West. Regardless, all played a large part in the overall Victory over Nazi Germany. To be honest every one played a large part. Saying the US or Russia was the main player is a insult to the majority that also suffered greatly! For example during the D-Day Landings. Half the troops were US. Yet, the other half were British and Canadians……..along with smaller numbers of Free French and other Allied Nations. On the other hand the early Victory’s in North Africa. Were mainly British and Commonwealth Nations………..
As for the Pacific Theater is was a mostly a US Conflict in the Central Pacific. But, the Australians, New Zeelanders, and British played a large part. Especially, in the South West Pacific, India, China, and Burma. As a matter of fact Indian Troops played a very large and important part too!
Personally, I think its unfair for any one side to claim victory. While, some had larger parts. (i.e. Russia in Manpower and US in Equipment) Everyone played a substantial part in the overall victory…………..In many cases even the loss of the small part could have meant defeat!
Scooter, isn’t the discussion going completely out of topic. i mean from 21 Century IN Plans of carrier to who contributed more in world war 2
ajay_ijnThat is unlikely to change with a different government in power as well. I think the IAC will be delivered without further delays, the C.S have an excellent reputation building commercial ships on time. Well we can afford a few more years if need be. 😉
i seriously doubt, this is the first time we are building a carrier so challenge is huge, it would a gr8 achievement is we did that around 2015, but even that for me is optimistic. PSU Shipyards are highly inefficient in timelines as compared to foreign orders Navy has placed. how many years we afford depends on how many years Viraat can run. the problem could be that Viraat may spend more time in dock than in waters. it already is 50 yrs old, sea harriers even thought upgraded are very small in numbers due to attrition. Sea harriers subsonic speed would be a disadvantage in BVR.
ajay_ijnEmm yeah its been long , been busy so didnt , but will try to post few in coming days
waah saath interviews. had lots of info. thanks very much for that.
There is a comprehensive plan to augment our transport and helicopter fleets. The existing Dorniers and AN-32s will be upgraded to contemporary state-of-the-art standards. The C-130Js will be with us in a couple of years. An inter-governmental agreement with Russia for the development and production of a Medium Transport Aircraft has been signed. Proposals are also being processed for aircraft in the heavy and very heavy class.
whats very heavy class? Is chief talking about getting An-124/C-5 type planes:eek:
ajay_ijnEmm yeah its been long , been busy so didnt , but will try to post few in coming days
waah saath interviews. had lots of info. thanks very much for that.
There is a comprehensive plan to augment our transport and helicopter fleets. The existing Dorniers and AN-32s will be upgraded to contemporary state-of-the-art standards. The C-130Js will be with us in a couple of years. An inter-governmental agreement with Russia for the development and production of a Medium Transport Aircraft has been signed. Proposals are also being processed for aircraft in the heavy and very heavy class.
whats very heavy class? Is chief talking about getting An-124/C-5 type planes:eek:
ajay_ijni thought the ones Russia is buying from algeria is the M version. also isn’t the Mig-29K for India is mainly based on the land based M.
ajay_ijni thought the ones Russia is buying from algeria is the M version. also isn’t the Mig-29K for India is mainly based on the land based M.
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