ajay_ijni was wondering if its possible to get TOT for weapons too like PGMs, BVRAAMs and Standoff cruise missiles?
ajay_ijnBetween U.S and Sweden may be, not between U.S and India. You cannot expect them to give ToT if you don’t select their fighter :eek:. The issue is to be negotiated between Sweden and U.S we have nothing to do with it, we should just ask the Swedes how much ToT and on what components.
yes i was talking abt US & Sweden.
ajay_ijnI was purely speculating that SAAB doesn’t have total control over third party systems it purchases from outside suppliers……………..Which, could cause a problem for a Gripen Win. Which, I personally consider unlikely nonetheless.
if US or Europe release technology for their own fighters and deny the same for Gripen, that would damage the relations.
ajay_ijnBison has EL/L-8222 EW Pod and Tarang RWR.
ajay_ijni will have to agree with scooter as far as Navy is concerned. Admiral himself was frustrated with the problems that he commented on relationship with Russian industry.
Navy had problems with IL-38 upgrade, Kilo upgrades, then gorshy, minor problems with Ka-31. and if Akula is further delayed, it would make things worse. ofcoz Navy has no other option in case of Akula but clearly showed their disatisfaction in case of MPA tender where IL-38 was not even shortlisted.
It could be the same case with upcoming deals like 6 follow on submarines and 7 P-17A frigates, 60 ASW Helicopters, 6 Medium Range MPA, 8 Mine countermeasure vessels.
ajay_ijnAnd by 2040 India will be an economic superpower which will be able to retire its MRCA fleet. I do not think there will be any ac doing added time like the current Mig 21s in the future.
I disagree, India being superpower or not, i dunt think we are retiring them by 2040. we acquired Mig-29s, Mirages, Jaguars in 1980s and are upgrading them only now. Besides IAF is highly likely to increase order to 200 or even more in future depending on what happens with LCA and its future lifecycle.
We are going to pay for future upgrades of Rafale and Typhoon, while the Falcon already have them all. So do the SH.
what all of them? the big difference between them and Euro canards is AESA. Rafale is going to get AESA for sure. Meteor is going to enter service next decade. still if we are to give so much priority to AESA then SH is a much better contendor.
ajay_ijnMore Potential for growth will also mean more expenses in the future. India has a long history of upgrading aircraft on its own. So if the F 16 upgrades are not going to come from Lockheed in 20 years am sure we can do it ourselves. With a wee bit of Israeli Help
Its going to be easier with Rafale or Typhoon to choose and find upgrades because there will be other Air forces operating the bird. ofcoz its going to add expenses because you need to keep the aircraft good enough according future standards. but it will be more tougher to find upgrades for F-16 ourselves.
The difference is like a 25-30 year old worker at his prime (f 16) and a 12 year old (rafale) who we have to pay for school and college for his future and evolution !
F-16 is not a 25-30 yr worker. most air forces will start retiring them when IAF will be still inducting them. And i dunt think India will have to bear the development expenses for Rafale future subsystems.
And by the time India starts inducting rafale in big numbers, it will graduate out of college. Its not just that F-16 is older but i am also considering the lot of delays from Indian Govt side while aquiring or upgrading the platforms. That going to add more Obsolescence to the bird in long future, just like whats happening with older Mig-21s today. They are going to take even longer time to replace F-16IN in future, just like the much delayed MMRCA competiton which we are discussing. Newly inducted fighters would atleast offset that delay somewhat.
IAF has had frustrating experience operaing old Russian aircraft with no spares support etc. They tend to stretch the birds life untill they have good spares supply whenever there are delays in procurement and replacements.
ajay_ijn3. Russian tieup angle: Airframe Manufacturer + Component Manufacturers + Avionics Manufacturers have to have experience or tieup with some russian companies to integrate the russian munitions in inventory. India has a huge inventory of legacy & state-of-the-art russian missiles, bombs etc. It wouldnt make sense to India to shift all of a sudden to western munitions.
India always had western munitions for western fighters and might have bought more after kargil considering the performance of Mirage 2000. if i am not wrong, IAF actually used Paveway-II during Kargil. Jaguar also has been upgraded for delivery of precision weapons. just recently it was reported that sale of 500 CBU-105s was requested by India. Mirage 2000 upgrade would also mean, capability to deliver latest munitions.
ajay_ijnDRDO seems to have identified the problem with the test as software of the terminal guidance.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/000200901211813.htm
“The missile performance was absolutely normal till the last phase, but the missile missed the target, though it maintained the direction,” Pillai said.
Stating that the main objective of the test was to evaluate new homing scheme in a multi-target environment to an identified specific target, the BrahMos chief said the complicated mission called for an advanced algorithm and intelligence embedded in the missile.
“The cause of the malfunction has been analysed by a group of scientists. The new software used for this mission will be revalidated through extensive simulations and a flight trial will be carried out in a month’s time to prove the augmented capabilities of the missile,” Pillai said.
ajay_ijnThe Mi 17 deal is another instance where the Russians squeezed our balls to get what they wanted. Mig 35 should really not stand a chance. We should also diversify our inventory with European and American types.
The price was reported as 600 million for 80 Mi-17s in 2006 and now its double the price we payed. but still its worth paying that much for worlds most popular helicopter. I don’t understand why India did not get license to produce them. There are few products/categories where its hard to beat the russians, but ofcoz Mig-35 isn’t one of them.
ajay_ijnLand attack brahmos test fired
NEW DELHI (AFP) — India’s military Tuesday tested a surface-to-surface version of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile which it had developed jointly with Russia, a defence ministry spokesman said.
The missile was fired from the Pokhran range in the western desert state of Rajasthan, bordering Pakistan, that was also the site of India’s nuclear tests in 1998.
The official said the test was “routine,” but it comes amid heightened tensions between India and Pakistan following the Mumbai militant attacks that New Delhi says were directed from Pakistani soil.
France negotiating joint development of Short range SAM with India
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/4990/
France wants to develop a new short-range surface-to-air missile (SR-SAM) in cooperation with India. Negotiations are nearing conclusion, according to Jean-David Levitte, Diplomatic Adviser to French President Nicolas Sarkozy.
This new system may be the Maitri, which may incorporate technology from India’s Trishul SAM and MBDA’s MICA.
India’ state-run Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) released a global RFP for co-development of SR-SAM system. Levitte said the process to secure a foreign partner is underway.
ajay_ijnWell, that interesting question coming from a Australian. As most believe the Flanker is unbeatable and superior to everything except the Raptor. As I said the question is not that the Typhoon maybe better than say a J-11B, Su-30 MKI, or Su-35. Yet, how much better………..
Quote: http://www.dera.gov.uk/newsite/home_2.htm
British Defense experts made an attempt to compare the newest Russian fighter SU-35 with its modern western analogs.
During the evaluation the experts simulated the fight between Su-35 and some western airplanes (such as F-22) to determine how many Russian planes will be destroyed. Mind that Su-35 is the upgraded version of Su-27 and relates to 4++ aircraft generation.
Analyzing the plane’s characteristics, the agency imitated tactic and technical peculiarities. They were “equipped” with appropriate missiles, the pilot’s tactic was also impersonated.
The statistic was summmiresed and showed the following:
F-22 – 10,1:1 (one brought down F-22 for more than 10 SU-35)
Typhoon – 4,5:1
Rafale 1:1
F-15C 0,8:1
F-18D 0,4:1
F-18C 0,3:1
F-16C 0,3:1Sorry, it likely the JASDF equipped with Typhoons could face more than 4.5 to 1 odds vs the Flanker. Which, would also be supported by large numbers of J-10’s. That of course doesn’t even include possible future models of PAK-FA’s or J-XX’s………..like I said I personally don’t believe the Typhoon provides the level of Air Superiority needed by the JASDF.
Just my personal opinion………..:cool:
on one hand ppl say F-22 is an overkill against present adversaries to justify the costs, hence inducted in such small numbers and scooter says Typhoon isn’t enough.
There is still advanced F-15, F-35 on cards.
ajay_ijnThe perfect combo would mirror the USAF High / Low Mix……F-22’s and F-35’s!:diablo:
since they cannot get F-22s, the next in line is typhoon+f-35.
ajay_ijnOh, I think the Typhoon would be a excellent choice in many cases like Saudi Arabia, Oman, and possibly Kuwait to name a few. Yet, I would have to disagree on Typhoon being a good fit for the JASDF for a number of reasons…….including not in the Strategic Interests of Japan. IMO
why not, They can acquire Typhoon for A2A and F-35 for A2G. combination would be perfect.
ajay_ijnIndian Air force chief states that Inter-Governmental agreements for design and development of fifth generation fighter aircraft has been concluded.
http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0/5C9B1310979EB2C6652575410041C618?OpenDocument
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