UnicornYour wish is my command… 😉
There was a proposal to replace some of the Perrys’ hardware with COTS components that could emulate NTU and enable full integration of SM-2MR. However, it looks like that modernization has been abandoned. I don’t know why – it would make so much sense. Instead, it appears that the Australians have done a bare-bones integration of SM2-MR, requiring illumination before launch (no autopilot), which means SM2-MR should have no performance improvements over SM1-MR.
The reason for that is that the RAN understands that their FFGs are stopgaps intended to provide AAW capability until the arrival of the Hobart class Aegis-equipped destroyers and the frigate replacement project still being formulated.
Rather than spend a fortune coming up with a sole source system, the RAN decided to basically support the FFG’s AAW capability with a missile system that the US was still supporting (SM2) instead of one no longer supported (SM1).
It was a pragmatic decision based on financial imperatives in a navy in the process of introducing four new ship classes (Hobart class DDG, Adelaide Class LPA, Armidale class PB, Sirius class AO) and two new helo types (MH90 & Super Seasprite).
Unicorn
UnicornIndians were always in open competitions. and only MIG-29 was comparable generation fighter to Mirage-2000 and it played its role. and those MIG-29 were far cheaper obtained compare to Mirage-2000. and they have crashed less also
Indian competitions for miltary hardware, until quite recently, were never open.
The largest western supplier of military hardware was excluded by politics from consideration.
so do you think there is no technology/price issues with other vendors?
Of course there are, but the Russians seem to be setting a new benchmark for ineptness and gouging of customers. Gorshkov is up their with the UK’s Chinook deal, the Canadian Navy Helo saga, the Australian Super Sea Sprites fiasco and the Upholder deal in a ‘how not to’ of military procurement case studies.
It will be long time before MRCA is decided. Even Rafale production line my close by than and only PAK-FA will remain in same competition.
Possibly, possibly not, but that is a big call to make.
Unicorn
UnicornAustralia mounts .50’s on most major and minor warships for intimidation of illegal fishing boats that won’t stop, etc.
For more serious work they use the Sea Typhoon and Mini Typhoon stabilised mounts.
Unicorn
UnicornTOOWOOMBA TO SAIL FOR DUTIES
The Royal Australian Navy’s (RAN) Anzac class frigate HMAS Toowoomba will depart her homeport of HMAS Stirling on Sunday, for a four month long deployment. The tour will take Toowoomba and her crew from Australia to Asia and back again, with a number of exercises and port visits in between.
The first stop for Toowoomba is Darwin, which she will use as a base for Exercise Kakadu 08 and Singaroo. The multi-national maritime Exercise Kakadu 08 will be held in waters off northern Australia. Kakadu provides valuable training for the Australian Defence Force (ADF). It is vital in ensuring services can effectively and efficiently work with other regional forces.
“It is always great operating and interacting with other Navies. Singaroo and Kakadu is also an excellent opportunity to showcase northern Australia,” said Commanding Officer Toowoomba Commander Charles Huxtable, RAN.
The second exercise in Toowoomba schedule is Singaroo, a bilateral maritime exercise with the Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) from 4 to 8 August. Singaroo aims to improve the interoperability of the RAN and the RSN in all aspects of Naval Warfare in order to contribute to effective maritime combined or coalition operations.
“The opportunity to conduct two maritime exercises back to back is a great chance for Toowoomba and her crew to demonstrate that we are professional and capable,” said Commander Huxtable.
Following the two maritime exercises Toowoomba will commence Operation Resolute on 11 August. Resolute will involve domestic maritime security activities in waters off Northern Australia as part of the ADF’s contribution to Australian whole-of-government efforts to safeguard Australia’s interests through the conduct of surveillance, response and enforcement activities coordinated by Border Protection Command.
Upon completing Resolute on the 28 September and before coming home, Toowoomba will conduct a Southeast Asian deployment. With port visits to Pusan and Singapore, the deployment will give Toowoomba’s crew the opportunity for rest and relaxation after a long few months. Toowoomba will arrive home at Stirling on 30 October.
ENDS
Unicorn
UnicornThe image of the AF100 / Hobart class looks distorted, for example look at the length of the shaft mounts, they are exagerated in their size, with the screws seemingly well below the rudders, plus the length of the fin stabs below the keel..
For a better image from similar angles try these shots of the official models of the Hobart.
http://defencemodels.com.au/Projects/Hobart.asp
They show the revised stern, but the cut down at the stern is not exagerated as the image is.
If I had to guess, I would suggest the original image has a x-axis distortion, which exagerates any vertical distances.
Unicorn
UnicornTinWing: SSGT DRAWS ADMIRING CROWDS AT PACIFIC 2004
Jesus mate, you are desperate if you have to go back four years to a media release that a company issued to tell everyone exactly how wonderful the reception to their wonderous new product was.
I was there, there was some interest, mostly from the Defence media, and since then not one Navy has shown any serious interest in that technology.
As for your comment, that “Considering the last boat was only commissioned in 2001, the Collins class is hardly in need of replacement, so there is plenty of time for study” the RAN is undertaking that study, with the first of class due to be enter service in the post 2020 time frame.
Very preliminary planning started two years ago, so is a decade and a half of planning for the next class of sub sufficiant for you?
By the time the first enters service Collins will have been in service for at least 24 years.
Surely you are not seriously trying to tell me that a quarter century is not long enough for a sub to remain in service?
Tinwing, what exactly is your experience in the operational requirements of the RAN, with particular emphasis on the mission profiles of the Collins class? You try and speak on what they should or should not try and do, but where is your expertise in the issues here?
Similarly, what non-nuclear, available technology boat was able to fulfil those requirements pray tell.
As for your comments about the book I referred you to, if you are basing your counter arguments on an exerpt then you are either trying to take the cr@p or are a complete bull-excreter artist.
Unicorn
UnicornThe reason that they have not actually removed the missile launching system entirely is that the system forms part of the strength of the shiip, contributing to the stiffness of the main hull girder.
HMAS Canberra had her Mk 13 launcher removed in Sydney for a major service, while the ship returned to Western Australia. The ship was based in Western Australia and it made sense to do more of the refit there, with the crew close to homes and families, rather than 3000 miles away on theother side of the continent.
To cover the area normally occupied by the Mk 13 they basically bolted a steel plate over the hole.
She encountered some rough weather in the Great Australian Bight and the hull, thanks to that great big hole in her forecastle, ended up with both a twist and cracking in the structural members forward.
That is the reason Canberra was paid off early and is currently on her way to be sunk as a dive wreck off Gelong in Victoria as I type this.
I am sure the RN are aware of this incident with Canberra and it may have a bearing in the RN’s decision to leave the launcher body intact.
Hope this helps explain the issue.
Unicorn
UnicornPersonally, I question the need to replace the Collins class in the near term. Perhaps the best bet is a service life extension, and failing that, an honest appraisal of long term needs. Instead of seeking yet another oversized, over-specified design, it would be better for Australia to either chose a conventional, off the shelf SSK or consider a smaller number of SSN hulls, sacrificing numbers for greater capability. Either way, the Collins class proves that it make absolutely no sense to maintain a submarine production base in Australia – unless a future government is eager to engage in yet another embarrassing program for the sake of maintaining employment.
There speaks someone who doesn’t have a clue to the operational profile and capabilities demanded by the RAN to undertake their required duties.
There is NO ‘off the shelf’ design that is available that matches the requirements of the RAN. Most SSKs are too small and too range limited to allow the long range transits to operational areas. The ones that are not too small are not available (Japanese basically).
I suggest you get yourself a copy of the recent book analysing the project, including the operational requirements, why the Colins class was selected and who was responsible for what issues with the class, plus what was done to fix those issues, it is called “The Collins Class Submarine Story: Steel, Spies and Spin” and is essential reading for any layman to understand what transpired with the Collins.
The issues of the Collins class involved most of the players involved, including the Australian Government and the RAN, the manufacturer (ASC) and the designer (Kockums) but the issues have been overcome and there is a reason that the Collins class are considered one of the best SSK classes available anywhere.
It cost a lot of money to get where the Collins class are now, but the capability was not available anywhere else.
In the future those same operational requirements exist, and once again there is no ‘off the shelf’ design that meets the requirements, so the decision has been taken that a replacement will be designed and built in Australia, leveraging off the expertise created to build and maintain the Collins.
Unicorn
I direct you to the
UnicornHMAS ANZAC SAILS FOR FOREIGN WATERS
The Royal Australian Navy’s HMAS Anzac sailed from Fleet Base West today for a five month deployment, which will take her ship’s company to North America and Asia.
The first stop in the Anzac Class Frigate’s busy schedule is Pearl Harbour, where she will join HMA Ships Success, Tobruk, Waller and RAN Clearance Divers for Exercise Rim of the Pacific 2009 (RIMPAC), for the largest maritime exercise in the world.
The Australian assets will join nine other nations for the month long exercise, which will this year see 35 surface ships, six submarines, more than 100 aircraft and approximately 20,000 personnel combine forces to improve interoperability across the full spectrum of war-fighting activities on land, sea and air, with the focus on the maritime domain.
“During RIMPAC, Anzac will conduct an Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile Firing off the North Coast of Hawaii,” said HMAS Anzac’s Commanding Officer, Captain Stuart Mayer, RAN, CSC.
Following RIMPAC, Anzac will sail to Guam where she will undertake a three day port visit prior to commencing an Asia deployment.
“During our two and a half months in Asia, Anzac will visit the ports of Ho Chi Minh, Sattahip, Bangkok, Sihanoukville, Penang and Singapore. Anzac will also take part in two regional exercises including AUSTHAI 08 and Bersama Lima in Singapore,” said Captain Mayer.
HMAS Anzac is the first of her class and a modern warship, capable of operating in a multi-threat environment. Anzac’s design is based on the German Meko 200 Class that uses modular construction methods.
Anzac is fitted with an advanced package of air surveillance radars; hull mounted sonar and electronic support systems that interface with state-of-the-art weapons systems. Anzac’s armament comprises a five-inch gun, Harpoon missiles, Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles and Ship Launched Torpedoes. Multi-role Sikorsky Seahawk helicopters can be embarked to enhance anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare capabilities.
Anzac is the third Royal Australian Navy ship to carry the name of an Australian legend.
ENDS
Unicorn
UnicornHi mate,
Sorry for the delay, images sent.
Cheers
Unicorn
UnicornSend me a PM with your email, I should have some images that will help work out the deck size.
Cheers
Unicorn
UnicornThe USN has been ‘encouraging’ the RAN to send a Collins class to spend six-12 months on deployment to San Diego for training ops with the USN.
The RAN has issues with manning as the massive economic boom underway down here has seen private enterprise offering blank cheques to entice well trained engineers away from the submarine service and out to the mining and offshore energy extraction industries.
Unicorn
UnicornAh yes, the infamous ‘Box Brownie’ images.
Unfortunately I have books over fourty years old that have these images in them, complete with US National Archive credits.
Lovely images, too bad about the back story.
Unicorn
UnicornGoll, give it up.
The rabid Chinese patriots and apologists on this forum do not want to hear logic, they live in their own fantasy land where everything, and I mean everything, is warped in the funhouse mirror of their prejudices and fantasies.
They don’t inhabit the same world as the rest of us, in their world China can do anything it wants, antime, anywhere, and the rest of the world either will not or cannot do anything to stop them.
Leave them to their fantasies.
I find I post less and less here, the apologists for China and India are over-running this forum. I prefer other, less one-eyed forums where people actually talk and discuss matters, rather than endlessly repeat dogma in the face of facts.
I won’t be posting to this thread, or reading it any more, I will leave it to idiots like Plawolf and his like-minded mates.
Congrats guys, you won. Repeat the same stupidity long enough and you will find no one else can be bothered posting, leaving you in possession of the forum.
Then you can control whats said here, just like the government in China tries to do in the PRC.
Unicorn
UnicornThat is just in a straight fight. In reality, the PLA’s initial ballistic missile barrage is likely to seriously degrade the ROCAF’s fighting strength in terms of the number of planes it can get into the air before the airfields are taken out of action. If the PLA can keep them out of action for long enough, it can decimate the ROCAF without having to send a single fighter to Taiwan – just wait for the ROCAF’s fighters to start running out of fuel.
If the ROCAF decide to attack, they will have to face S300 and other land based SAMs (maybe even naval SAMs) as well as the PLAAF. If they wait, the PLAAF can just wait longer and keep them in the air by continously taking out the runways. Then move in and mop up when the plans start running out of fuel.
Several issues here.
Firstly firing ballistic missiles crosses a threshold that no one willingly crosses. How are the Taiwanese to know that those incoming ballistic missles are conventionally armed, they might retaliate with their own WMD to prevent them being taken out in the initial Chinese salvos.
Even if somehow sanity prevails (and you have to remember that for most Taiwanese military personnel being conquered by the PRC is national death, which they will resist with whatever weapons they have) the longer the conflict continues the more lilkely that the PRC will have to contend with the USA.
If the USA enters the ring then the game changes dramatically, probably enough to ensure that the PRC loses. The next step will be that every country in the world with the exception of a few countries with close political or monetary ties to China will recognise Taiwan as independent.
Basically China has more to lose than to gain by attacking Taiwan.
The integration of the Chinese economy into the world economy has dramatically increased the stakes for China in undertaking unilateral action, this reducing the likelyhood of such action happening in the first place.
And another thing.
Regarding Tinwing’s statement
The Taiwan scenario disappeared forever this week when Taiwanese elections went overwhelmingly in favor of the pro-Chinese KMT party – despite the media hysteria over the Tibetan riots
The election may have lowered the tensions between the two countries, but another Taiwanese nationalist patriot will one day be elected, and China will once gain threaten dire consequences if Taiwan exerts its sovereign right to manage its own government policies.
Thus claiming that something has changed ‘forever’ is presumptuous at best, foolish at worst.
Unicorn
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