I beg to differ. If you check the available specs I think you’ll find the final service versions of the sabre were only putting out about 2080hp

‘Flight’ July 25th 1946 – Napier Sabre VII ‘Maximum power with water/methanol injection – 3,080 bhp at 3,850rpm + 17 1/4 lb boost’

The Sabre VII was production ready (after considerable delays) but ran into the same problems the RR Eagle 24 etc did, i.e. the jet age.

Other sources put the Sabre VII’s output at 3,500hp. A development version reputedly reached over 5,000hp. I just don’t see how anyone can claim the Merlin was as powerful as the Sabre in any comparable way – the Sabre was producing 2,000hp in 1939 on the bench when the Merlin was good for 1,000 – 1,200hp. In 1945 the by-then reliable Sabre V was churning out 2,400hp whilst from what I can work out the most powerful Merlin in a wartime aircraft produced around 1,800hp (versions used in Hornet and P-51H not until postwar so it’s not fair to compare them to the Sabre V).

The Brits love nose high AC. 😀

Especially when it’s this AC and it’s nose-high because it’s doing this

Farnborough last year

…and a developed Merlin kicks out 3600hp http://www.strega.com/technical/

My point remains – Merlin was capable of 2,250 in the P-51H and after a further half-century of development, in a dedicated racing version, can manage 3,600. The Sabre’s first production version produced what the Merlin’s last production version did, and by the end of the war was up to 3,000hp – and was less far along the path of development. I don’t see why equally developed Sabres couldn’t be capable of 4,000 or even 5,000hp today.

simply put i dont like either the tempest or the typhoon (no offence 🙂 )

You mustn’t like the Spitfire much either to want to ruin its purity of engineering and line like this!

Surely a Rolls V12 is intrinsic to the Spit? Anyway, bear in mind that RJM’s design was already feeling a tad creaky by the end of its life. When the Mk21 was tested by the RAE it was remarked that the design had gone just about as far as it could, and that was after a major redesign of the wing. In my opinion, every model beyond the MkV was pushing it, particularly with regard to the torsional rigidity of the wing and consequent effect on roll rate and vNE. The Spitfire was a wonderful aircraft in its day but if you want to sweep the board at Reno you’ll be disappointed – you won’t touch the Mustangs and Sea Furies with a Spit whatever engine you throw at it.

OK, I take it back about St Paul’s but you see where I was coming from? And incidentally I don’t like the idea of Lear-winged ‘Stangs and Duplex Cyclone engined Sea Furies much either!

your opinion, but if one had the money then i fail to see why he/she should have to conform to the ideals of others. its his aircraft!

If it’s history you’re screwing with I think conforming to the ideals of others might be a good idea. The Church of England owns St Paul’s Cathedral – doesn’t give them the right to paint it magenta and turn it into a nightclub.

Exactly, a tuned Merlin, or possibly also an Allison V-1710, is always going to be more powerful than a Sabre

Really? Late model production Sabres were putting out about 3,000hp – and this was at the end of WW2 for aircraft that needed to be practical warplanes. In the end the late mark Sabres never had an aircraft to go with them (intended machines included the Tempest MkI and a Fury prototype was also fitted) but that’s still about 750hp more than the most powerful production Merlin offered, and that was after a good decade-plus of development and the addition gizmos such as water injection.

Anyway, if you want a Sabre-powered hot-rod, look no further than the Napier-Heston

Bought my Dad club membership and persuaded him to pledge a bit too. Fingers and everything else crossed. Still hoping for that lottery win of course.

@ J Boyle – at the risk of re-opening the Falklands debate again, I understand that there were both SAMs and radar-laid AA at Stanley when the Black Buck missions took place (the first being unbeknown to the RAF and the second being the reason why the bombing missions ‘popped up’ to 10,000ft before dropping the bombs).

Mind you, I’m not sure I’d call being on the front line for most of the Cold War entirely out of harm’s way. From what I’ve read, seen and heard it was an incredibly stressful time which meant that crews and equipment had to be constantly at a high state of preparedness for whatever they might need to do. The switch to low-level if anything made things more dangerous, and was a switch that the Vulcan accomplished and the Valiant and Victor could not. It’s a point that VTTS has often made – that the Vulcan and her crews helped keep the Cold War from turning hot.