Used to live in East Anglia so was spoiled (going back a few years now) used to see F-111s, Hercs on an almost daily basis, as well as some notable occasionals, a flight of Jaguars, an F-15 once, the Red Arrows twice and a Shackleton.

These days I live under the Gatwick flightpath so see very little of a military nature 🙁 – in fact all there’s been was a Nimrod last year, landing and then taking off a few days later. It was noisy and impressive though, can’t wait ’til the Airfix one comes out!

At work, I can see a tiny patch of sky over towards the Thames so from time to time see Chinooks, Lynxs, Gazelles…

Nice pictures guys. Keep them comming.

Does anyone have more photos of British or French cold war bomber or fighter designs?

OK, here is the Hawker P.1121 – not strictly a prototype (the pic is a mock up) and the Air Ministry showed annoyingly little interest in it as they were more concerned with Mach 356 fighters the size of a 747 armed with missiles with a hundredweight of electronics. The P.1121 was a Mach 2-2.5 air superiority fighter and strike aircraft designed by Sydney Camm to be powered by a single de Havilland Gyron or Bristol Olympus. Any hope it would have had was squashed by the same 1957 White Paper that did for the Fairey Delta 3.

In my opinion it could have been a very fine aircraft that would have supported the Lightning very well and kept the UK up with its competitors in the design stakes up through the 60s and 70s. It was briefly resurrected to pitch for the same spec that the TSR2 was designed to meet but as it couldn’t spin plates while performing Swan Lake and riding a unicycle backwards it was rejected. Shame.

The Scimitar loss rate is shocking for an aircraft that only saw peacetime service!

I’d be interested to know how many Blackburn Firebrands were lost as well, I seem to remember it’s high. Given the problems with swing on take off and the considerable visibility issues on landing I wouldn’t be surprised.

Various ideas have been batted around on this forum at various stages without a clear consensus on how to deal with the problems. Myself and WV838 took things off forum at one point to discuss a possible way forward, but with our other commitments there was no way we were going to be able to take the formation of an organisation to help things along.

The suggestion was of a web based network aimed at publicising projects, directing would-be volunteers to local projects, raising support and money for preservation of ‘at risk’ artefacts and creating a body for lobbying.

The suggested aims and objectives I reproduce below in case they inspire anyone.

The Society for the Preservation of Aviation Heritage

Mission

To improve historic aviation enthusiasts’ access to preservation, to provide opportunities for them to get involved in local or national projects, to raise funds for preservation and to provide a voice for enthusiasts to lobby for preservation issues.

Aims

• To form a broad church society devoted to the preservation of at-risk articles of aviation heritage

• For the society to be as accessible, easy to join and welcoming as possible

• To keep the community widely informed about ongoing preservation projects and how they can help

• To allow ‘armchair’ enthusiasts and those with time-pressures to become involved in one off projects by giving time, money or support

• To co-operate and collaborate (and avoid competition) with existing groups and museums to help further the cause of aviation preservation

• To provide a central point for members to raise money and share knowledge for individual preservation projects

• To provide a central point for lobbying government, councils and other bodies where there may be a benefit to the preservation movement in so doing

Objectives

• For the society to utilise online and e-technology in order to enable the broadest possible access, and be web-based rather than location-based

• To use this technology to keep members and potential members fully informed, involved and up to date with ongoing projects

• To allow members to vote on issues that they feel the society should be involved in and lobby for or against

• To provide a network of people with skills, knowledge, resources and time – a resource library and a catalogue of people with manuals for example

• To maintain a list of ongoing projects that people can become involved in either run by members of the society or not

My fault really for confusing IIM and IIIF.

Funny how we’ve come from a Mach 2.75 strike bomber to a wooden-framed biplane fighter in the space of one thread, all thanks to three little letters!

I can’t remember where I read it but I do remember the account I read of the sinking of HMS Glorious. Apparently She was commanded at the time by an ex submariner who forbade them to keep any aircraft ranged on deck or fly recce patrols. His reasoning was that recce patrols would alert the enemy that they were in the area and he wouldn’t have any aircraft ranged on deck as “it looked untidy”. As a result they knew the enemy was around somewhere but only found out where when it was too late.

Very possibly the captain did not like aircraft ranged on his deck, but when Glorious left Norway she only had one serviceable Swordfish and no fighters anyway. There certainly weren’t the resources for a proper CAP at this stage. I think they did try to get an aircraft up but a shell struck the lift and prevented any aircraft being taken on deck. Also the captain of the Scharnhorst cannily attacked from upwind so Glorious would have had to turn towards him to launch aircraft. Finally, some of her boilers were out of action so she could not make best speed. All in all a very sad episode, but crying out for a film.

Here are some subjects of films I would rather see than a Dam Busters remake, and would be just as exciting – more for the value of being relatively fresh subjects.

1. The Norway campaign in 1940 (including FAA Skuas sinking a cruiser in a dive bombing attack that proves so successful they are called upon to make a more-or-less suicide attack on the Scharnhorst, or perhaps RAF Hurricanes successfully land on HMS Glorious to save the valuable aircraft only for the ship to be sunk by German battlecruisers)
2. The attack on the Italian fleet in Taranto (it has everything, the underdog triumphs, bold new strategy changes the balance of power etc. etc.)
3. The raids on the Tirpitz, particularly Operation Tungsten
4. The 2nd TAF in Holland/Germany in 1945 – the loss rate and strain this had on the pilots of the side that was nonetheless winning would give this a rather ‘Aces High in WW2’ feel, showing that victory is very, very hard and comes at a price.

…And as for His Dark Materials, thanks, but I’ll just reread Paradise Lost.