XN923correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t a U.S.A.A.F pilot in a P-47N also make a claim that it broke the sound barrier in a power dive?
Was this the same P47 pilot who claimed to have shot down six German fighters in one mission? 😉
Looks like it might be the DH108 as Derry went supersonic in 1948 didn’t he? In other words before Yeager’s ‘self contained’ flight.
XN923We have no pets yet due to landlord issues, but at the soonest possible opportunity we are likely to get two Cocker Spaniels which will be called ‘Lieutenant Parsons’ (afer the character in Those Magnificent Men) and ‘Snackleton’ – this last discovered when I was holding the box for a kit of Avro’s finest with my thumb inadvertantly over the upright of the ‘h’, which my wife thought was hilarious.
XN923My apologies if no TSR2s have been sold for more than the RRP, but I wasn’t referring to dealers, I was talking about private individuals. I may be mistaken and many people may want to build ten or fifteen kits, if so, they have more space (and more forbearing partners) than I do!
If only I didn’t have all those other kits to get through first…
XN923Got mine yesterday – Modelzone, Holborn being very obliging. Looks promising…
XN923Just seen the first Airfix TSR-2s on Ebay (Friday morning) Very tempting, but I’d resent paying over the odds for a brand-new kit like that. Anyone else thinking of it?
I might if I had no other way of getting one, but Hannants say that they will have some surplus stock so I’d keep an eye on their website, and Models2U as well. I rather resent people buying up loads of TSR2s to flog on ebay as this was obviously the most keenly awaited kits in a very long time and an obvious opportunity for cynical people to make a few quid.
Got my first and two more should be arriving next week.
XN923It’s here!
Just got a call from my local model store. The kit is now in stock and they’ve put my ordered one aside for me.
Can’t wait to go and collect!
XN923OK all, given the 400+ ‘views’ of this thread, and the numerous views expressed here and in other threads, I think there is some mileage in the possible formation of such a group as long as it was complementary to the work that is already being done and provides an ‘in’ to preservation to the mass of casually interested enthusiasts who, like me, might not know where to start when it comes to the nuts and bolts of saving our aviation heritage for posterity. It would probably be web based and a loose confederation of enthusiast members working on projects of their own (a la Dave T’s Shackleton) or helping a museum out, contributing either time or money, in however small amounts, to individual projects or the overall scheme as they see fit.
I am going to leave the threads for a while and draw up some aims and objectives to the group before putting them to all and sundry. If anyone would like to chip in at this stage, feel very free to PM me. Thanks for support so far…
XN923David,
Would you be ‘In or ‘OUT’ David??
The scheme could be relatively simple, a website run by volunteers where people could register for a fiver and in return museums local to the individual could post times and places when volunteers were needed. The central funds could be used at the discretion of those registered to the site by email vote etc??
I would like to hear more of what other people think so I’m going to take a back seat for a while to see what interest there really is in a ‘Society for the Protection of Aviation History’
This is the kind of thing I’m coming to the conclusion might be complementary to the good work that is already being done in the preservation movement and harness the mass of support and goodwill from the vast majority of ‘casual’ enthusiasts who aren’t in the position to donate huge sums of money or be a regular volunteer at a museum… but might like to help out now and again and in general.
I’m going to draw up some aims and objectives for such a scheme and come back to the forum when I’ve done so. If anyone would like to contribute to the formation of these ideas, please feel free to PM me. Thanks to those who already have.
XN923Martin, I think some shops did put a limit on – problem was, the limit was something like 10 kits!
However, I’m sure shops like Modelzone will have a stock set aside and you will be able to find one, though I’d advise being quick! Or try eBay which I suspect will be flooded soon enough. Or failing even that, I’m sure they will do another run, as the kit seems to have had unprecedented interest which looks like it has even caught Airfix by surprise.
XN923In a recent communuication to Gatwick Aviation Museum the council admitted to having received “hundreds of letters from all around the world” in support of the museum. This made little or no impression. In the GAM case it is naive to believe that it is a simple matter of the council being obstructive. As always, there are other vested interests at work here, some who clearly have more political sway with the local authorites. I suspect this is more often the case where there is a problem being granted planning permission. Do not be misled into believing a few letters from a number of disparate people will achieve anything. It may, but.
Political clout is the only real way to produce results, stand for your local council, county councils and then use your influence. Lobby politicians, local and national, hassle them enough, with enough people and they’ll take action just to get rid of you! Use the system like all well orgaised, loud voiced minority groups do, there are plenty of examples of a small group getting results when they “shout” loud enough. If you can change the system even slightly in favor of aviation preservation your efforts may be worth a whole museums contents of airframes.
Thanks for this Pete. So what do you see as the bar to progress with planning permission? Council planning departments are bound to only make planning decisions on planning grounds. There may be complaints about the proposals but I struggle to see on what grounds they could be upheld. If the councillors are making planning decisions on anything other than planning issues they should be dismissed from the committee.
In short, your point about letters from disparate people is entirely consistent with what I’m (in a vague, roundabout way) proposing. I suppose the message is ‘don’t get mad, get influential’. Question is, how?
XN923What I and other are saying is that more is available – a lot more. US.
Hear hear!
XN923The membership and ‘updaters’ are more than likely doing something connected with preservation not talking about what they have done!
No doubt true, but in this information saturated age failing to keep the public informed like this can be taken as a lack of interest in what joe public or the average armchair enthusiast thinks. Rightly or wrongly, failing to provide information on your progress will be taken as evidence of lack of progress, and people will take their interest and money elsewhere. Part of this comes back to the need to mobilise people according to whatever skills they have. I would be useless at stripping down an airframe but could make myself useful liaising with the local media and developing communications for people who can. Perhaps the preservation movement, or some parts of it at least, needs to start making full use of the information age, for it is in this way that the RAFM and the IWM will take all the ‘pie’ and leave none left for the local museums and individual preservationists.
XN923Well put, Mark.
If the politicians see voters from all over the country wanting better treatment for our aviation heritage rather than from a single entity like the BAPC then they may well feel more compelled to act. If I get a request from one of my students, I often dismiss it. When a whole group of them come to me – I know I need to do something.
I also think the dismissive attitude towards civil aircraft needs to change. Sure, military aircraft are a lot ‘sexier’ but aircraft like the tridents, 1-11’s and so on are icons of a lost british industry and are in my opinion extremely valuable parts of our heritage. They pose greater problems due to their sheer size and maybe it won’t be until they are gone people will really stop and think – we should have done something.
Now, where’s that poll?
What do you think the question should be wv838?
I think there are a lot of good points coming out of this discussion, not least the suggestion that putting aircraft under cover is a laudable overall aim for any more-or-less complete airframe. See the Gatwick Aviation Museum – a worthwhile collection of airframes that otherwise would quite possibly have been scrapped. However, despite the fact that this museum is adjacent to London’s second airport and in a region that owes most of its local economy to aviation, the museum has been subject to an eviction order for fifteen years. While this has not been enforced, it means that no planning permission to erect buildings that could have got the aircraft under cover can be built. Effectively, all these aircraft are at risk, certainly the two Shackletons which are probably too big to move should the eviction order ever be enforced.
A pressure group of enthusiasts, well run and funded, could help persuade the local council that such a museum is a valuable part of local and national heritage when ludicrously it seems to be regarded as an eyesore (the council insisted that trees be planted to hide the aircraft from the road… next to an airport!!!)
This is one way in which an independent society could help complement the other organisations out there.
XN923The infrastructure is already there and for the most part working well. With a little more assistance it can work even better.
Part of the purpose of this thread is to find out how that assistance can be rendered. Nobody is suggesting that there have been no attempts to rescue the Swift. What is the case though is that defeatism seems to have crept in and it has got difficult to separate the truth of the matter from the various stories flying around about why the owner won’t part with it. I’m not saying that another attempt won’t fail, but that’s no reason for not making it. If the slow death of another part of the nation’s heritage is what it takes for us to look at what is needed to make the system work better, then at least there will be some slight silver lining. The worst thing we can do is assume that everything is fine and that if another Swift, Vulcan or whatever gets scrapped it must have been inevitable.
XN923The infrastructure is already there and for the most part working well. With a little more assistance it can work even better.
Then how to render this assistance becomes the issue. It’s been pointed out that one large voice is better than lots of individual, competing voices when it comes to preservation. It also depends on your definition of working well, what you mean by ‘saved’ and what your views on preservation are – as I’ve said on the ‘Society…’ thread, there will always be some objects of historical value that slip through the net. It is up to us as enthusiasts to make sure that the holes in the net are as small as possible. Maybe this can be done by supporting a museum but I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that something akin to a helpful but powerful pressure group ‘coalition of the willing’ (with apologies for the political connotations of that ghastly but not entirely useless phrase) with a bit of cash behind it and the clout to put on the record what enthusiasts want to see saved and how is needed.
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