Carrierfan:
You are correct of course, nonetheless the fact that our current monarch just happens to be Queen Elizabeth cannot be discounted, and must have an effect when government considers the ramifications of mothballing a nearly new carrier, as against converting it for CTOL operations.
Personally, I think we are overdue for an HMS King George VI. The late King was a naval veteran of WWI who surely deserves to have a ship in his name. Traditionally, the first capital ship built in a sovereign’s reign was named after him, thus King George V had a battleship of that name, but when the KGV class were being built in the late 30s, George V had another battleship named after him. Odd that.
Leon:
You have convinced me. Britain should scrap the Royal Navy and rely on the League of Nations to protect us.
Leon:
If you really think a Type 45 could be built in a year you are living in cloud cuckoo land. With the best will in the world, and no matter how much money you threw at it, it could not be done.
As to the British economy, we spend less than 2% of GDP on defence. The government would rather increase spending on foreiegn aid than spend the money on the defence of the realm. They think that “soft power” will give Britain influence, making her an “aid superpower”. I think that’s a load of nonsense, but the fact is that that is what the government thinks, and spends its wealth accordingly. The money is there, and that is how they prefer to spend it.
Prom:
My point is that after the SDSR, the Royal Navy is, arguably, weaker than it has ever been. No fixed wing capability, only 6 destroyers, 13 frigates and 7 SSNs is as close to bare bones as the Royal Navy has ever been in modern times. If both CVFs are built, and is they are both fitted with catapults and arrester wires, and if sufficient F35Cs can be bought and delivered to the RN rather than the RAF, then yes, the picture will be very different. But we don’t live in the future do we? Here and now, and for the next decade, the Royal Navy has been brought to a pitiful state of weakness, given that it is the navy of one of the world’s major states, a permanent member of the UN Security Council, and a maritime nation with global interests. All the while the coalition government wibble on about being an “aid superpower”. It’s enough to make you spit.
PhilipG:
My point is that if Britain had had a fleet carrier in 1982, the Falklands War would never have happened, so any possible problems regarding launching aircraft in bad sea states would not have arisen.
The actions of Thatcher and Nott in slashing the surface fleet, especially the carrier and amphibious forces, simply invited Argentine attack. The fact that Thatcher actually believed Ark Royal, already scrapped by 1982, would somehow magically be available, is truly shocking, and demonstrates how little politicians, even control freaks such as Thatcher, truly understand. We see this today, where Cameron is throwing his weight around as if Britain had a 300 ship navy. One day reality will bite, very hard, but sadly it will not be the politicians who die for their folly.
I think there is a world of difference between not wishing to risk aircraft in an exercise, and launching them during wartime. Anyway, the bottom line is that if Britain had had a fleet carrier in 1982, there would have been no war with Argentina, so the point is moot. Thatcher and Nott reduced the Royal Navy to the point that the Argentines thought that an invasion of the Falklands was worth the risk. Strength never invites an attack, but weakness often does, and the Royal Navy is weaker now than it has ever been.
If they are, I’m not aware of it.
How big is the RAF now? Not big enough that they can spare a squadron of pilots on an expensive PR exercise. Would you rather have the Red Arrows entertaining people at air shows, or Harriers?
I think it’s about time the Red Arrows disbanded too. If we cannot afford to keep our Harriers, how can the RAF justify using a squadron of its best pilots as a display team? They contribute nothing to the defence of the realm, which as far as I know is meant to be the RAF’s raison d’etre, rather than providing entertainment at air shows.
Badger:
So Phillips was under the impression there was no air cover available at all? As I said, the Malaya campaign was marked by incompetent leadership by all three services. In reality, Prince of Wales and Repulse really should not have been stooging around with no air cover in that part of the world at all. They had been sent to Malaya to deter Japanese aggression, but that plan had failed even as they arrived. I don’t get the impression Phillips was up to the job, but then neither was Percival or Brooke-Popham. A disaster all round.
To be fair to the RAF, they had a squadron of Buffaloes on standby to cover Prince of Wales and Repulse, but Admiral Phillips never asked for them. They were sitting on their airfield when they could have broken up the Japanese attack. Sadly the whole Malaya operation was marked by quite outstanding levels of incompetent leadership by all three services.
The way I would see it is that the carrier allows China to project power in the China Sea area, not against the US but countries with which China has regional disputes, while the missile is intended to deter the US carriers from interfering.
That may well be right. I still have serious doubts about the effectiveness of this anti-carrier missile however.
Trident:
I understand your point, but to my mind it still seems jarring to announce both a new carrier and a missile system which, if it worked, would effectively render the carrier obsolete. The conclusion I draw is that the missile system probably does not work as well as the Chinese would like us to think. They hate the ability of the US to dominate the seas close to China, so why not put a few doubts in their mind? Doesn’t mean the things will work, and I suspect they won’t.
Seriously, why do you believe one is at odds with the other? Having one has zero bearing on whether it makes sense to have the other or not, so China introducing their first carrier says absolutely nothing about their ASBM project (one way or the other). You seem to be drawing a conclusion from the existence of the carrier on the effectiveness of the ASBM, when logic allows no such conclusion to be supported by this argument.
Again, nothing wrong with that part of your opinion per se. However your particular justification for it is specious.
As I said, I do find it rather jarring and illogical for the Chinese to be trumpeting both a new carrier and a seemingly infallible anti-carrier missile. If they can really build such a missile, then so can the USA, and their one new carrier will be at rather more risk than America’s eleven. No, for the reasons I have given, I very much doubt that the anti-carrier missile can do what the Chinese are claiming, the technological problems are huge, and such a missile system would be staggeringly expensive, it would be much more advanced and therefore expensive than an ICBM. The Chinese may be trying for it, but I would be very surprised if they have cracked it. The progress of the carrier, however, I will follow with interest.
I AM having kittens about CVN-78. Its going to be named the FORD for petes sake!!!!!!! A politician who was not elected to the Presidency!!!! Honestly……They will be having them named after corporate sponsors next. (USS Bank of America?!)
I quite agree. Gerald Ford had a brief and comically inept presidency. The only thing of note which happened during his term of office was that the USA stood by and let its ally South Vietnam fall to a Communist invasion, the very fate which over 50,000 Americans had died to prevent. That merits a carrier being named for you? I wouldn’t name a coal barge after that cretin.